Mar
28

The Truth about Being Told to Get Over it and Let it Go

By

let it goHow many times have you heard the instruction “Just Let It Go”? How many times have you personally been commanded to “let it go and move on”? How many ways is that statement communicated to people who are simply trying to justify their pain? How many insensitive people tell hurt people to “forgive and forget” or to “stop living in the past”? Last week, someone on the Emerging From Broken Facebook page directed ‘everyone’ on the page to “get over it and just let it go” and this sweeping, careless statement inspired me to write from a slightly different view point about the directive “Let it Go”.

In my view today, letting go is no longer about trying to simply forget injustices done to me. It is rather offensive to have been directed to let go of wrongs that had never been acknowledged in the first place. I was being told to ‘forget’ events that were mean, wicked and sometimes even illegal and to stop trying to have my pain validated. I was being told to let go of things that most of the people in my life were denying ever happened to me.

And you know what;

I did let go. Here is what I let go of;

I let go of the idea that successful relationship depends only on me.

I let go of the expectation that things would change if I just tried hard enough.

I let go of the belief that if only I could figure out how to be who they wanted me to be, that they would love me.

I let go of the hope that I would one day be good enough to be seen as an individual with valid thoughts and opinions of my own and I realized that they don’t get to decide how valid I am OR how valid my decisions and opinions are.

I let go of the idea (that I had been brainwashed to believe) that I had no choice.

I let go of the belief that ‘they’ did the best they could and realized that there were many times that they didn’t do the best they could at all. The truth was that I was not permitted to judge their choices for me.

I let go of the idea that something was wrong with me.

I let go of the hope that they would change.

I let go of the resentments I had when I realized that I had a right to have them and that they didn’t come from my delusional imagination. The resentments that I had came from somewhere. Validating where they came from went miles towards my being able to ‘let them go’ in order to ‘move forward’.

I let go of the belief that something was wrong with me when I started looking at what happened to me. I let go of the pain when I validated the pain and where it originated; I was only able to let go of the past when I faced it.

I let go of one-sided relationships that told me I didn’t matter and in doing so I found the beauty that has always been me.

When someone advises you to “just let it go” ask them what their definition of “letting go” is. Get clarity about what they are asking you to do. Ask them to define the word “it”. (And if they can do that to your satisfaction, ask them to tell you how they would suggest you go about “letting it go…)

Ask yourself what letting go means to you.

To me letting go is no longer about trying to forget injustices done to me. I was being commanded to let go of injustices that had never been acknowledged in the first place. I was being told to ‘forget’ events that were wrong and sometimes even illegal and in doing that I was being told to stop trying to be authenticated. I was being told to let go of things that most of the people in my life were denying ever happened to me.

As a result of that, I was trying to let go of the fact that I had been dismissed, invalidated, neglected and ignored. I was trying to AGREE with ‘them’ that nothing bad or wrong had ever actually happened to me and in doing so I was regarding myself exactly the way I had been regarded. As a result of that I was sinking deeper and deeper into depressions, feeling as though I could not breathe and in reality I was fighting for my life.

I was actually fighting NOT to let go of the truth ~ and it’s a good thing too because it turned out that it was in finally understanding that I was not the problem and that letting go of what I was being told to let go of was NOT the answer, that I found the answer. It was in realizing that being directed to “let go” was actually dismissing me yet again, that I was finally able to take my life, and my power and control back, and finally “let it go” and I got over it.

I let go of false hope. I let go of the hope that they would transform in favor of working on my own transformation. I let go of the hope that they would HEAR me. I let go of the hope that they would SEE me. Instead of my hope being in THEM, I listened to me. I heard me, I saw me, I validated my own pain and I began to emerge from the broken life I had been living.

I put my hope in the truth.

I began to breathe.

I began to heal.

I found my true self and realized that I was not a mean hateful person. I found out that I was a hurt, squished person and underneath the wall I had built up to protect myself, was a loving, caring, sensitive and beautiful woman.

And I said NO to being squished. I let go of the belief that unless the people that had invalidated me, decided to validate me, I wasn’t valid. I didn’t need proof that I was valid anymore. I let go of looking at me through their eyes!

I let go of the lies and false definitions of me, and I began to live!

When I let go of the belief that the answer was in proving to “them” that I was worthy and when I faced the truth about what happened to me, I found my worth and all the resentments fell away.

And I said YES to me!

Please share your thoughts with us in the comments. 

Exposing Truth; one snapshot at a time

Darlene Ouimet

The Emerging from Broken book “The Beginning of Hope for Emotional Healing” is ready for download! If you find that the subject matter I am writing about resonates with you, get this book today! This 197 page, downloadable, printable, live linked e-book will put you on the fast track to healing.  Get yours here through the upper right side bar or click this link~ Emerging from Broken The Beginning of Hope for Emotional Healing

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Related Posts: When People Treat You like You are Crazy, Stupid or Frustrating” 

 

Categories : Freedom & Wholeness

201 Comments

1

This is an interesting spin on the common advice of “let it go”. You showed that in a sense, you did “let it go”, but not in a way others may think.

I have to admit there are times that I wish I could snap my fingers, and forget, but it’s not that simple. It’s even more hurtful when your own abusers say this to you. Thanks for this insightful post.

2

This is a great post. I realize that I need to eliminate my expectations of others’ but it is easier said than done. HOW. How do I find my truth? How do I detach? How do I stop waiting in vain to hear what I will never hear, or feel what I know I will never feel? Unconditional love/acceptance/equality/respect from my parents – specifically my father, the emotional, verbal and sometimes physical abuser. I feel like I’m chained to self-depricating thoughts and depression. I want to live fully, without the burden of the pain of my upbringing and how it hinders my present day happiness, success and relationships. I feel like I could live at such a higher potential, but I am so blocked. Was it a ‘one day out of the clear blue sky came acceptance?’ or did you go through a process to discover your true self?

Thanks for posting and thanks for finding your truth. You give me hope and inspiration that I can come out of the shadows of my past.

Blessings,

Allison

3

Thank you!

I’m beginning to wonder if the people who tell us to “let it go” actually know what they mean. Could they answer that question if I asked them?

I’d say that I am at a point that I’ve let go of everything I was aware I needed to let go and I am still willing to let go of whatever is causing me problems. Anyone who thinks I AM a problem can let go of me.

I feel so much better than I did three years ago!

Hobie

4

Dear Darlene, terrific article! i “let it go” alright. People who (so covertly) like to stir up past issues, and then smirk. They should mind their own business, but they won’t. i miss them, like i miss car trouble.

5

Thank you, Darlene! I can’t tell you how much your site has helped me to understand myself and to make sense of what I have been through.

I have often been told to “suck it up!'” and “get over it!” There finally came a day when I realized that by being told to do that was like an admission of guilt on their part and that I really was being treated wrongly. They just did not want to be accountable for it. It was a dismissal and an invalidation. Just sweep everything under the carpet attitude. I am still in the throes of wanting “them” to acknowledge or at least express some serious understanding of how their actions and words have hurt me and damaged me terribly. I know it will never happen. My family still chooses to ignore the seriousness of the situation and they protect themselves and feel justified. I tested the waters recently and found that my words literally fall to the ground as though I have not spoken when I try to approach gently that I would desire their help to change the family situation and to work with me on the issues. So, I find that I must retreat back to a “no contact” action. If I don’t, I will be destroyed. I love them and want things to be right and happy but it will never be that way. The relationship will always be a one-sided superficial and a situation of uneasy tolerance. I am better off without them! So sad! They made their choice!

6

Excellent article.

7

Hi S1988
Yes, after years of trying to prove that I was a good person and trying my hardest to let “bygones be bygones” I let go of the hope that they would change. I didn’t need to “forget” ~ I needed to validate what had happened so that I could move forward.
Thanks for sharing,
hugs, Darlene

Hi Allison
The “how” question is answered throughout this website. I wish I had a quickie answer but it is a process that takes some time and I talk at length about that process in this website (and the foundation of “how” I did this is in my e-book on the top right side bar). The answer for me was not in getting that longed for acceptance etc. from my parents and family. It was in finding my way back to me and the truth about my value no matter what they thought.
Thanks so much for sharing and welcome to emerging from broken!
hugs, Darlene

8

Hi Hobie
I have asked this question and no one has EVER answered it! lol.
Yay for letting go in the healthy way!
Hugs, Darlene

Hi Deb
I am so glad that this site has resonated with you in a positive way! I wanted them to HEAR me too, but it was in realizing that wasn’t happening and in re-focusing my energy to healing that I was able to stop believing that my hope was in them ‘hearing and seeing’ me. And yes, it is SO SAD! It is so sad that so many people make the choice NOT to have loving relationship in favour of treating people in the dismissive ways we are discussing.
Thank you for sharing,
hugs, Darlene

9

Darlene I could hardly believe it when I saw the title of this post. Just a couple of days ago I was thinking about one brother who years ago had said to me these exact words and I thought to myself “I wonder what Darlene would say about “let it go” and “forgive and forget”!

What’s striking and sad is that his words offered a tiny crumb that I clung to amidst the family dismissal and denial: at least it was implied that there was something to forgive. Out of my two brothers, he was more validating. That’s how used to I was of receiving so very little support.

My other brother flat out told me my feelings were not justified. A year or so ago this other brother also said to me that he saw it as an “issue of personal responsibility” and that if my relationship with my mother, father, etc. was not fulfilling, then I should take charge and make changes. Well guess what…I “personal responsibilitied” him right out of my life because my relationship with HIM was not fulfilling. I guess that kind of backfired on him.

Another thing about “let it go” and “forgive and forget” is that it is disrespectful and arrogant — it assumes that the one saying this knows what is best, has been through the same trauma, and is going to tell you how to fix it whether you asked for their advice or not. I think it is said to benefit the speaker i.e. “I want you to let it go so I don’t have to feel uncomfortable with the feelings that are coming up for me when you talk about it”. Or “I might feel guilty or accountable in some way and I don’t want to go there, so shut up”.

Thank you for you insightful post that helps crystallize the issues, and puts them into words.

10

Hi Darlene, I’ve been perusing your site for a while and I have found it to be an immense help. I’ve read so many books, websites and articles trying to ‘get better’ and like you I tried so many different things (supplements, yoga etc.) but your idea of the truth always stood out to me. Whenever I read one of your posts it just always resonated so I ditched the books and the supplements and the constant Googling and just gave myself the time and space to figure out what I was thinking and doing and the origins.
And now I’m letting go of my own incorrect beliefs and ideas and they are similar to yours. Chief among them is this idea that my life always has to go smoothly to not inconvenience or disappoint others. It’s like I’ve believed that when unfortunate or negative things happen to others they are just that, unfortunate accidental things beyond the person’s control and I should offer help and compassion. But when it came to me it’s like when something negative or unfortunate happened to me then it was my own fault for not being careful or responsible enough and it was such a burden to others that I should thoroughly appreciate any scrap of help being thrown my way and make sure to be very apologetic.
You and a couple of other writers have helped me to start letting go of this unequal belief and actually living my life freely without stress and worry over every event and decision. So thank you Darlene and please keep writing.

11

Thank you for the interesting perspective. I will be sure to ask the right questions the next time I’m told to let it go (and admit that I’ll probably enjoy whatching them squirm). I’ve long felt it was dismissive of people to tell me to let it go, or to forgive and forget.
For years I did “forget” by burying the damage and accepting responsibility for my parents bad behavior. Only when I could let go by forgiving but resurrecting those long-buried memories could I begin to heal.

Recently a childhood “friend” whose mother had died young encouraged me to “let it go” because she feared I’d look back and regret not repairing my relationship with my mother after she was dead. She said she hoped she wasn’t offending me.
Well, I unleashed on her: It does offend me. Would she expect a woman to go back to her abusive husband so he could break her face again? Would she advocate that a child be returned to the home where she is raped nightly?

Thank you Darlene for your reasoned approach to healing. You always challenge me to think a little differently.

12

In the past year I thought if I hear one more person, including myself say “move on”, “let it go”…I would blow. I have tried for years to do just that & to forgive.
A big eye opener to me was when I read that our past must be resolved.
It would me insulting to me now if someone told me that.
“Let it go” is such an invalidating response.

13

I’ve given up on the idea that my relationship with my maternal grandmother and father will ever be one in which respect is equal on both ends. Heck if I try to point them out for their terrible behaviour, the response from the evil duo would be: “Ah, you’re just like your mother!”
-Oh so it’s a sin to fight back? Why do something that is wrong in the first place then?
I’ve let go of the fact that I am not going to heaven if I stand up to them.
-This is yet to happen, but I am no longer going to let the mother-in-law and son-in-law tandem crush me ever again.
I’ve let go of the titles “Cry baby”, “Drama queen”, “Sensitive” which were spurted out whenever my immediate response to the situations was sadness.
-Like seriously, in what world would you ever see a person jump for joy, when you hear a love one say: “He hasn’t even graduated yet but what a waste of University education, I should have just dumped him
in a kitchen ages ago, if he was only going to apply for a kitchen-hand position.” Or do they seriously want me to honour a father who claimed when I was 9 yrs old that I will go to hell, just because some of my actions were not “manly” enough?
I’ve let go of the forgive and forget policy.
-If the person no longer does any of the things that have been done, then perhaps I can truly say that forgiveness is an option and if we were to remember the horrible things, we’ll either have a few seconds of dramatics or we’ll laugh them off.
>Ha! But that is stuff that only happens in the “ideal world.” We’re in the real world Carlos, so let that thought go.
I’ve let go of the “Fresh start” idea with those two.
-Fresh start to form new wonderful memories or Fresh start “to do it all over again?” The fact that it’s always option number 2 that’s being fed to me, means that any effort to start again has been made futile. Well there’s a reason why it’s number 2, it’s not supposed to be nice.

Feels great to never have to deal with such “excess baggage” ever again.

14

Darlene, I truly honor your writing.

Thank you for giving many the awareness they need to grow.

I have a point I’d love you share, seeing as your writing reaches so many…

If the person saying ‘get over it, let it go’ just listened, listened with compassion & listened without offence, you would actually begin to be able to get over it and be able to let it go.

In the mean time, we are only left with the option of picking our wounded selves up, caring for our pain and then carrying on the best we can. Which in many cases is speaking up for yourself.

Keep writing! And keep helping people to know how to care.

Not everyone will change, but maybe enough will learn how better to deal with people who are different to them.

Thank you so much.

15

I have been reading your website for almost three years now and have made a lot of progress reversing the lies .and not accepting ” their” definitions of me and have even started standing up for myself. The one part where I get stuck is in trying to get beyond wanting ” them” to see what they did to me. It is like wanting an apology that is never going to come. It sounds like others are also stuck in this same place. How do we break out of wanting this? Iknow they were wrong. Why do I still want THEM to know they were wrong?

16

Hi Amber,

You’ve asked a great question. I don’t know that we break out of wanting them to see that they were wrong. We learn that we don’t need them to agree with us for our own awareness to be true.

I think that I see it for myself in terms of the difference between wanting something and expecting something. I don’t expect the people who are wrong to admit that they’re wrong, but I sure do still want that to happen. It has become more important that I know that I am doing what’s best for myself in spite of what “they” think, say, or do.

It takes time for the pieces to fit together. One day I looked back and realized I had changed. I bet you will see that you’ve changed too, even if there are more changes to go through.

Hobie 🙂

17

Hobie, thanks for your thoughtful, insightful response! Yes, I have made enough progress where I know that I don’t need them to agree with me or see it my way for me to see the truth of something. An example would be a couple we were former friends with who treat me as if I wronged them. I once doubted myself and ruminated over and over trying to figure what I ” did”. Now I know the truth. I never did anything nasty to them. They, for reasons only known to them have decided to end the friendship. I know the truth, and have nothing to feel guilty about but there is still that yearning for them to see that they treated me badly and own up to it. So I guess I’m sort of where you are on this….knowing the truth, or as you said, knowing our awareness to be true. But maybe I haven’t yet let go of the ” expecting” part. I guess that because I’m the kind of person that likes to right a wrong, I hold others to that same standard and being that it is wishful thinking,it leads to disappointment.
Yes, Hobie I can see how much I’ve changed in the three years I’ve been reading Darlene, and I also know I still have a ways to go. It’s all part of being in the process. Thanks again for that wonderful comment and have a great day!

18

I needed to read this today, puts into words what I’ve been trying to express so desperately.

19

Great article Darlene! Lots of wonderful comments already. As Darlene likes to say this is one of those “stick points”. To be demanded upon to get over it and let it go. It would be nice I guess to have this magic erasure to take care of all this stuff, but it doesn’t happen this way. What has helped me is understanding that this is a process without a time line. I have learned to be gentle with myself and just take the time it takes.

20

Right on Darlene…well said. I needed to read those exact words. When I decided to let go, I lost all communication with my mother and sister (they’re tied at the hip to each other) and still spend a fair amount of time pondering if I did the right thing. (though it’s less and less time I think about it). I feel the worst about not being able to communicate with my niece who is in college. It’s weird for her. Her mother (my sister) puts the fear of god in her if she has any communication with me and for this as well, I have had to accept and move on. My niece has to make her choices as well. All I know is I have to live my truth. The pain never goes away and there is sadness but the alternative is to live their lie and be their endless scapegoat. I figured out I’m worth more than that.

21

Darlene, this is a true masterpiece. I have let go of some of the things you list and I’m still working on some of the others, but this could be one of your greatest posts ever. Thank you so very much.

Connie

22

Hi Light!
Isn’t it funny how timing is?? It’s like we put this thought out there and bam, suddenly we are reading about it! I took care of it and made changes too and they didn’t much like that either! I couldn’t win back then so doing what is best for me at least makes me happier! It is totally disrespectful and dismissive to be told to ‘let it go’ and it is totally about the person telling you to do it. (even if they seem to mean well)
Thanks for sharing,
hugs, Darlene

23

Hi Sea and Sky
Welcome to emerging from broken! (the commenting part)
Yes, I too discounted myself while serving everyone else. Yay for taking back your belief in equality and that you deserve the same compassion/respect as others do!
Hugs and thanks for sharing,
Darlene

Hi Patti
Welcome to Emerging from broken!
Very good points that you stated to your friend. Thank you for sharing them with us.
hugs, Darlene

24

Hi Diane
Welcome to EFB ~ Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
hugs, Darlene

Hi Carlos,
The bottom line about forgiveness is that it is supposed to be given when sincerely ASKED for. Most of the people in my life were telling me to forgive something that the person who did it didn’t even admit that they did it. Those ppl. were certainly not feeling any regret for the actions they denied in the first place. :/ As for the fresh start thing ~ I made a fresh start too! One that didn’t include sucking up to people that treated me like I was nothing! ha!
Thanks for sharing!
hugs, Darlene

25

Hi John
Welcome to EFB ~ Thank you for your praise and encouragement. I love all of your points too. Thanks so much for sharing
hugs, Darlene

Hi Amber
I got beyond wanting them to see what they did by realizing / accepting that it wasn’t going to happen. They don’t WANT to. I finally realized that I had to go forward myself and that knowing the truth was enough. I am enough. They don’t have to agree or apologize or even love me. This is really one of the biggest parts of the healing process and I understand the difficulty you are having trying to do this just through the blog itself. For me it was rooted in the fact that I believed that if they SAW how wrong they were that I (my pain etc) would finally be validated and I mistakenly thought that because they had invalidated me, that they could also validate me. The truth is that we are ALL valid and they don’t have to see that they were wrong. (complicated I know!!)
hugs, Darlene

26

Hi Wendy
Yay for finding some solution here!
hugs, Darlene

Hi Andria
Well said as always! It does take time. 🙂
Hugs, Darlene

27

Hi Janette
Welcome to EFB ~ Isn’t it sad how they do this? It’s kind of a truth leak that your sister has to put fear into her daughter instead of letting her daughter decide for herself who she would like to have relationship with. It’s like these people try to force other people to pick sides and it actually works! ugg..
Like you, I couldn’t live with the alternative…
Hugs, Darlene

Hi Connie
Wow, thanks! I am glad you like it!
Hugs, Darlene

28

Thanks so much for this post Darlene, it was timely.

29

Andrea #19 – Haha about magic erasure. I would love to have one!!

Jeanette #20 – We have similar circumstances in that my sister and mother are very close and I am on the outside, and my sister’s daughter – whom I was close with – emotionally left me years ago. I was and am heartbroken, and I’ve seen my sister tell her incorrect things about me or simply not say something to her that would be healing therefore not support my relationship with my niece. Pretty dysfunctional and it saddens me, but for my own mental health I had to keep moving forward and no longer try for change if the other person didn’t want that.

30

Darlene, RE message 25; yes deep down inside I guess I know it is about accepting that it’s not going to happen. I think that might be what I grieved about the most when my mother passed on. If I had held out any hope that she might be different at some point, at her death there was zero chance of that happening. I guess that’s true amongst the living too. Some people are never going to ” get” it, there are going to be apologies that are deserved but never received. It is a grieving process too, one that I really don’t want to face but have to because I have no control over what others do and there is no magic formula for getting them to see and admit they were wrong. I appreciate your response.

31

Light I admire you for moving forward, and are not looking for change when the other person doesn’t want it. This is the spot I got stuck in, and need to start moving forward because there are some people in my life that don’t want things to change.

32

I was a very abused child and it lead to abuse in adulthood. I found this sight and read your book! The lights went on! Someone else having the same feelings and putting those feelings into words! For all you do for us, I wish we could do something for you! I feel like someone has taken my hand and guided me towards your intelligence and awareness!! I have read so many books and joined many sights and groups. I have had many therapists. Now in my 50’s I have finally found some peace, by understanding that sometimes our friends and family members don’t have the mental capacity to love and understand us! We want validation that they can’t give! They can’t treat us right or fairly, because they either don’t care, don’t understand, or enjoy the power of their mean and hurtful words!! But, I don’t give them control over me any more! I love walking away and never looking back!!!! Thank you for all of your messages they really work!!!a friend once said to me that I was put on this earth to learn to love people who don’t like or love me. But one day I decided that there is no gain in letting people use you so now I only deal with people I like or love me and who have mutual respect! I stopped trying to do the impossible!

33

Question. Have your parents ever seen your blog? How did you or what did you do in reaction? I want to start a blog, but I think my parents would react horribly.

34

Hi Ingrey
Welcome to emerging from broken ~ Thank you so much for your lovely validation that my blog and my book (that my work) is impactful and that it has made a difference in your life! Yay for you putting truth into action! I feel sad for the people that believe we are put on this earth to learn to love people that don’t love us as though that is the path to enlightenment! It doesn’t make sense. I think the only loving action towards people that treat me badly is to say no to them. If I don’t say no after I realize how wrong their treatment is, I am communicating my consent.
Thank you so much for your comments!
hugs, Darlene

Hi Tripleguess
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hugs, Darlene

35

Hi Seeker
All of my family has seen my blog. I use my real name (my legal birth name) because for me using my real name was part of taking my life back. My family was not happy about me writing but I didn’t write to hurt anyone. I wrote to share the answer I found and the hope that total healing is possible. This is my story, my life, my message, and I don’t need their permission to talk about my life anymore. The thing is that they didn’t approve of me before I did this, so I didn’t really have anything to lose. There is a ton of info about all of this within the pages of this website. (and my e-book as well)
Thanks for sharing,
hugs, Darlene

36

Hi Amber re: post #31 — Thank you for your kind words. Accepting that they are not going to change has been a continuing process. I found myself in bed for days after holidays feeling beaten down from the interactions, crying, feeling so rejected when I wasn’t included in something. This went on for years, I talked to my therapist for years, and even talked with my primary doctor in appointments.

It was a slow evolution, but after one particularly stressful holiday, and other pivotal conversations of non-support over the few years, and with the help and support of all of you and Darlene on this blog, I put a stop to it. Life was passing me by and I just HAD to put my mental health first, no matter what. I feel guilty sometimes about not seeing my mother much, but then I remember how she had so many chances. That said, I couldn’t really MAKE myself move forward though, I just did so when I was ready.

Sometimes there are moments during the day when I think I can have a little more contact with my mother again. Then I’ll think not. I dread when she passes away, because it will all be so final and never ever mendable. I do see her in large family gatherings, about every few months.

I don’t know if my heart has become harder, or I’ve become stronger. I hope I can be open to close friendships and an intimate relationship if the opportunity is there because I want to continue creating my new family.

37

This is such an interesting topic! Over the last six years I was told that I had to forgive and forget. My then-spouse told me that I had to forgive and forget when he went off his medications for his bipolar disease and that was the beginning of the end of our relationship. That was one of my biggest fears over the years and I was told I was crazy for thinking and considering he did not have control over his disease. I lost all trust and our relationship became even more toxic. I was told “God have mercy on your soul” because I was not forgiving and forgetting quick enough for him. I was chastised by him saying “OK are you over it yet?” He never accepted responsibility for his going off his meds and he wanted me to give him the OK to do so. It almost felt like a “get out of jail free card” because it made the excuse that it was OK for him get off his medications and stated how he would probably do it again, and yet I was shamed because I was not acting very Christian. I set some huge boundaries and was told that I had no idea what boundaries were. How devaluing to me as an individual and a wife of 20+ years!!! I even had the Our Father prayer quoted to me because I was not “… forgiv[ing] those who trespassed against us.” I have learned that the emotional and religious abuse that I suffered causes me to never really feel like I can forgive until I understand more of the abuse. But I will never forget because it would minimize what I went through in that whole ordeal. As I learn to see my part in the dysfunctional relationship and the attraction we had to each other, the more I see and understand why the abuse occurred at all. Darlene your book and posts have been so inspiring to me. I have more to learn and I am glad to have found your website!!! Great topic!

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I could have written every single word you wrote here, both the question and the answer. Thank you Darlene, I’m moved by your honesty and desire to share your answers. No longer asking permission has been enormously difficult for me, your words helped me move forward today! Grateful, thank you

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I am so glad to read this article. A wonderfully confirming read for me. I have heard several people tell me to “let it go” or “forgive” them. That’s when I clarify to them that it’s not easy to forget injustices done to you. The problem/solution isn’t me forgetting or forgiving, it’s the other person who did the ACTions to change how they think and behave. As for forgive, the necessary ingredient was missing for me to forgive….the other person has to KNOW what they did and make amends with me in order for me to “forgive” them. Otherwise, I already know they are untrustworthy (you can’t forgive untrustworthy; they have to earn it back diligently). So forgive and forget? No way! Just isn’t possible. But I will move on from them by turning my back to those that have wronged me and hurt me deeply, and they refuse to see their hurtful thoughts, words, and actions.

It’s really sad how many people confuse being “offended” with real “hurt”. I only say that because outsiders will be the first to judge your experience as if you were merely offended by someone else, and speak as if that were so and to just get over it. When people say things like that to me, I immediately know their experience and knowledge is still that of an immature child, and immediately educate them on the facts of how it really works in life. Those “get over it” comments get squashed in a heartbeat by me. In fact, those type of comments are contributing to a world where bullies can thrive. It’s permissive under the guise of “be nice” at all costs. I don’t value nice. I value the truth, and sometimes it’s an ugly reality to speak the truth of what you had to experience/witness coming from an ugly act of another. As I say, don’t get mad at me for not “being nice”! I’m just reporting what was done by another!

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Hi Millie
Welcome to Emerging from Broken! I am all too familiar with the relationship style you are talking about; when someone is hurting us again and again and indicating that our response IS the problem! ugg. And about being “shamed for not acting very Christian” people say stuff like that when they don’t know what “acting Christian” actually IS. The biblical instructions around forgiveness are about when the transgressor is begging for forgiveness and is sincerely repentant for what they have done and has STOPPED doing it… and the victim of the transgression refuses to forgive. The teaching is not about forgiving someone for hurting us over and over and over with no regret. The false teaching around forgiveness in our society comes from people who want power and control; it works for them to keep us looking at ourselves because as long as we are trying harder to be what they want, we won’t see the truth about them!
I am glad you are here!!
Thanks for sharing!
hugs, Darlene

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Hi Tanya,
Welcome to Emerging from Broken! Yay for moving forward. I am glad you are here and thank you for your comments and praise.
Hugs, Darlene

Hi Laurie
Yes, I was just saying similar to what you wrote, to Millie. It works for abusive and controlling people to teach a false definition of “forgiveness” ~ it works really well for them but they way we are commonly taught to ‘forgive’ is b.s.
I love your final paragraph! ~ yes, those types of comments contribute to the problem and create permission for bullies to bully! Exactly!
Thanks for sharing!
hugs, Darlene

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I’ve never been told directly to get over it or let it go but in other words, yes. It all amounts to the same thing, though, whether they’re subtle or upfront.

My sense is that letting go, particularly of wanting their validation, is not just about validating yourself but also about when you really know and believe that they actually do know, that you’ve explained things enough (and probably didn’t need to; they were there after all), that it’s in their hands and they’ve already made their choice. In fact they made it years and years and years ago. The question was more if they were going to change their minds. If they haven’t yet, they likely never will.

I don’t know that it’s something I’ll ever get over. I think that it’s a wound that stays open that I have to learn to care for. I don’t think it’s a measure of anything in particular. It’s just what it is. Some days something will happen to rip it open and have me in tears. Some days something will happen to set off the bullshit dysfunctional program in my head telling me stupid things about myself, etc. And it’s just a matter of practice and finding ways to work these things out so that you are able to live at the same time, not with some idea that you’re going to reach some pinnacle where you will never again have a dysfunctional thought or action or that you’ll never hurt deeply over your losses, but just that you get better at managing—and I think it’s really just about how much practice you’ve had and how fresh is the wound.

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Thank you again. This is exactly what I needed to hear today! My parents do not want to hear, see, or know me. They see me as too sensitive, and the problem is all me. Again, I could have written this myself! I can say YES to myself. Thanks!

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Hi Alaina
Yes, realizing that they made their choice and that they HAVE a choice in having/repairing relationship with me is a huge part of this too. It was SO painful for me to realize that they didn’t WANT to be part of the repair, that they would rather insist that I am the problem and since, as you say, they know exactly what happened in the parts where they did it themselves, I had to let go of the hope that they might finally choose me.
Thanks for sharing,
hugs, Darlene

Hi Deborah
Welcome to Emerging from Broken! Yay for saying YES to you!
hugs, Darlene

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Thank You, Thank You, Thank You. It’s like you know me, except I still have much further to go.

46

I don’t think you are broken or were broken,if you mean broken as a portion of time. I think you are a lot more normal than you think, hence the popularity of your site, and myself and the people I share your work with who relate. I think we all feel broken at times, and you’ve been through a lot more pain than me, but I think there aren’t categories of broken and unbroken. Because you say “emerging from broken”, does that mean you will one day not be broken? I don’t think that day will come in this life. I think life will always have heartbreaks, but we can become more free from the cords of oppression.

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Dear Darlene, I really want to thank you for your work. I’ve been searching a lot for some clarity, and you got it. It’s really important what you are doing, it can’t be said enough.There’s barely any other stuff around that’s good, and it’s rarely this clear and straight. But it’s exactly this clarity that’s required to be able to really choose for yourself. So thank you and you are a hero for going beyond all the doubt and staying true. I also experience first hand how difficult that is with how the world is telling us to treat ourselves regaring parents. Especially because it’s triggers all these deep progammed believes you get as a child that tell you it was love from your parents despite everything.

It’s your site that is helping me taking these final steps of choosing what my whole system is wanting me to choose, and has been wanting to choose all my life, and that’s love, my self. I now see more and more how all the lies I learned about what love is is what’s keeping me sick, depressed, wounded and in a state that’s preventing me from (self)love and joy, nothing else is preventing me from this. It’s that state that thinks love is something I need to find from the outside, but everytime I heal more and more, I discover it has been nothing else but this giant hole inside looking for this love (and validation of myself) which I never had as a child.

So yes, this whole thing of having ‘to let it go’ is the absolute biggest nonsense that’s around. It’s the absolute opposite. It’s the not-letting-go and taking really serious to find out what’s bothering you that will set you free. In that way the letting go will be all the more glorious. I aslo found out my system knows very precisely if things are off, even if my conscious understanding doesn’t comprehend it yet. It’s really an art to follow my feelings regarding this despite my brain telling me I have to engage with my parents because I owe them in some way. Everytime I discover my system was right after all.

It’s has taken me 39 years to give myself a live after a childhood full of neglect. I’ve come from afar, especially the last 10 years where a hell in every respect but I survived. It says something about the severity I had to endure. Something I obviously still doubt, which I hate. That’s the tricky thing with neglect I guess. As if neglect is being done unintentionally and other abuse is consciously ill intended.

I was programmed to endure that my mother suffered from a bad childhood herself. I got no love, no attention, nothing, just basic survival mainly. And also in this basic survival I was mainly taken care of with a lot of complaining.

And I always get this explanation she wasn’t able to love me because she didn’t know how to love, she didn’t love herself. So her drama, and her needs where always priority, even when she saw I wasn’t doing well bacause of her. I became slave to her pain. The pain she caused me also has clearly never been reason for her to change.

And that’s my problem, cause I do not call this love. I call this utter selfishness. I can understand how hard it is to face trauma and I do not wish this upon others, but she clearly was never too bothered to pass on the pain and let me endure all that trauma that she kept evading herself. And meanwhile I have to sort things out once the result that I became and the pain I’m in is too confronting for her. Her own deeds regarding me are too confronting as well, something that keeps piling up of course.

She does admit stuff was bad, but I keep getting these explanations why things where bad. Which is something I do not regard as a serious attempt, especially once she doesn’t change. And she doesn’t really. The only thing that seems to have changed is that she seems to feel a little more towards me, but I fear that’s only because I ditanced myself from her. It’s her pain of losing me that triggers this.

It makes me doubt if other people are actually less capable of facing themselves. And how do I deal with that. If you ask me, I would really like to hold everyone responsible for themselves. And not regard others less intelligent, or weaker, so therefore less capable than I am. The stuff I had to endure because of her wasn’t minor, it took a lot of courage, it was a downright and complete hell. So what is it why could handle this and others are excused not being able to.

In a recent attempt of hers to reconcile I also sensed there is is no real compassion for me. It only seems that way once I’m not looking clear enough. It’s looks like her compassion does not go beyond the role in need to play in her life: that of her daughter. And her compassion is actually her compassion for herself, and the pain she faces for having treated me the way she did.

I find this really repulsive, as if I have to deal with a victim again. And yes, I regard her explanations as victim blaming, so she won’t just have to really face herself or me. At the same time I have been victim of this very same pain of hers from the day I was born. And I hate weakness that jusifies itself for mistreating me. And the point is, with the way she is, she can’t be anything else but needy. I find that so repulsive.

But it’s really bothering me, in my personal life I would not connect with people like her at all. They make me unhappy. What is it that would make me obliged to engage with this mother of mine in any way? What is it that I feel robbed of my freedom to tell her she needs to evolve so she can be in ways that would make me feel happy to engage with her.

And what is this thing that tells us we need to forgive even when a parent actually changes after all these years? Couldn’t it be that what has occurred is simply of such measures you’d rather not deal with somebody anymore?

The problem in my case probably is she hasn’t had a real change of heart, and that her victimhood is trying to inlfuence me into engaging with her for her selfish reasons. And probably I would forgive once I feel what she offeres is actually real love.

Please can you give me this confirmation I seeing it right, and that I can actually choose for the way I feel towards her? Demand of her she needs to evolve so there can be a real connection based on love, real compassion, taking real repsonsibility and non-needyness? Her victimhood is still confusing me. I feel i need to stick to my feelings in order to finally experience in this live what it’s like to fully love myself. I feel l like to hold her fully responsible, also for the fact she still needs to face her own pain, that pain that can’t really love, that pain that needs to suck on others.
As if by having to tolerate this, I’d still be stuck in these feelings that are oblvious to the maltreatment I received. Something that would prevent me from experiecing selflove, something that would prevent me from learning how to treat myself with full love.

I would really be greatful to get confrimed, cause it keeps sucking on me, it’s making me sad.

Thanks and hugs!

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Hi Gayle,
Welcome to Emerging from Broken!! You are so very welcome and you are certainly not alone!!
hugs, Darlene

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Hi Seeker
The name of this website “emerging from broken” was chosen by me because the way this blog is written is the story of the way that I “emerged from broken”. I am no longer ‘broken’ and yes, I have emerged. I don’t know that my pain was worse than anyone else’s (I suspect that pain is pain) but that doesn’t mean life is perfect or that I don’t have any pain ~ it just means that I face it so much differently now. I don’t use coping methods, I don’t feel the pain of the past, I don’t have those horrible resentments anymore.
I hope that clarifies.
hugs, Darlene

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Hi Darlene,
It’s really that pain that is SO hard. It was my birthday a few days ago and I ended up crying the whole day long in part because I got an email from an uncle I hadn’t talked to since leaving my old life. Just a short “not sure if this is still your email address but wanted to wish you a happy b-day and hope this is the best year ever!!! Loads of love…” I don’t even have any real resentment toward him. In fact I had a lot of good with him and he was the person I called when I had my breakdown to see if I could stay with him and his family for a bit and often when I’ve been feeling suicidal, I would think of him, wanting his help. But in the end the only way the family seems to stay in one piece is by pretending everything is fine and if you can fit, I guess you can fit, but if you can’t, you can’t. It’s painful because he made his choice, a passive choice, but still a choice. I wish he understood that and maybe he does and maybe he won’t ever write again. I suspect the family members on the sidelines wish I could be “above it” but I’m not above it. Above what anyway? Wanting to be recognized as a human being? No, no, I’m not above that. How could I be?

Hi Didi,
I can relate to the stage you’re at. I’m not sure you can demand that your mom evolves but you can put forward what you want/hope for, you can ask, and see if she steps up to the plate. If she doesn’t step up, you can decide then what you want to do. If you don’t want a relationship with her unless she changes, you can tell her that also if you want. Also, if she does step up, you still get to decide how you feel. I think your question about whether what’s occurred is to the point you’d rather not deal with a person at all, one way or another, is a fair question. You shouldn’t feel any obligation. Relationships should be entered into with mutual and compatible goals/desires, etc. I think that as adults that is our prerogative. I think it’s pretty impossible to predict how you will feel in a situation that has yet to happen and so long as it hasn’t happened, it probably doesn’t even matter to think too much about it, other than to understand you should always feel free to choose and free to feel however you feel. A lot of society frowns upon this kind of perspective but I don’t think any other kind of relationship works particularly well or is healthy (for all parties involved). Just my two cents. Also the kind of evolution you’re wanting from your mom is no small feat. It’s not impossible. It is a matter of choice, I think—choice upon choice. It is her responsibility. And I in no way think you are wrong or asking for too much, in the sense that you deserve to be treated well/fairly, etc. But it may be beyond her. I don’t know. Only she has that answer. But it’s a fair and good question to ask.

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I want you to let it go so I don’t have to feel uncomfortable with the feelings that are coming up for me when you talk about it” – Light

Yes my brother told me to let it go, he didn’t want to talk about “it”. And Light’s statement says just what I thought at the time when I dropped it as I always did. All I wanted to do was confirm that his recollection of events matched mine. He’s the golden child so I know there were differences in treatment, but wanted his insight. All he admitted was that mother screamed all the time. (which I didn’t remember). He was her flying monkey and was well paid to be. I don’t think he wanted to upset that cart. He was taught to see me as the problem -end of story. Well in 2012 I let him go. It had always been a very one-sided relationship. He never questioned or reacted to my no contact.
We have never had an argument or words.

I think that dysfunctional people respond differently to you distancing yourself than “safe” people do. They condemn or punish or pretend you don’t exist. Safe healthy people ask why. They question, whats going on? Whats the problem? They want to understand why. Dysfunctional people seem to respond by ignoring or attacking.
Darlene I love your positive spin on Let It Go. Boy did I. Or I should say I am trying. There is lingering hurt. We can’t fix them, we can only fix ourselves. Hugs to all. Karen

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Didi:
My mother too was always thinking about her needs and how to keep her abuser (my father) happy. I was useful to her as a servant and problem solver. As a child and adult, I had no other use or purpose. Her purpose every day was to meet her needs. She was in total denial that she had any issues. It was everyone else that was the problem. I see it now because of this website. I truly see her. She treated me like her mother treated her. She was super smart, but very stuck. Nothing I could do or say. No act of love or modeling kindness would change the way she had always seen me – as a burden to make the best of.
I had to say enough one day. Do I live FOR her or do I live to be me. I chose me.
She passed away last Nov without me ever seeing or speaking to her. I don’t regret my NC. I did it to protect myself from a harmful “unsafe” person. Sadly I only felt relief.

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Hi Didi
Welcome to Emerging from Broken! People can make all the excuses in the world for other people and for themselves, but the point is that once the problem has been exposed (or brought to their attention) Making excuses is a form of a ‘truth leak’. The excuses people make for themselves or for others validates that there is indeed a problem. And after that, change is a choice. Everyone can make a choice but we can’t force someone to choose to make a choice.
As for compassion ~ yes, I find that some people want to say “they are sorry” but there is no action behind it which makes us doubt the sincerity of it ~ and it leaves me feeling that the relationship and outcome are STILL only about them when I am asking for something mutually respectful.
I think that you will get the confirmation you are seeking by reading more of this site and some of the comments in the discussions. You can choose who you want in your life. Period. 🙂
Thanks for sharing,,
hugs, Darlene

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Alaina
Happy Belated Birthday!
I love what you posted to Didi!
hug and love, Darlene

Hi Karen
Love your comments on “safe healthy people” ~ yes, we can tell a lot about people by the way they respond to this topic!
Hugs, Darlene

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Thanks Darlene!
One thing I know is I lend too much attention to the people who have let me down. It takes too much away from what’s good in life. It’s hard to look away but at some point it’s all you can do. Thanks for all your good work and help over the years. 🙂

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Hi Alaine, Karen and Darlene!

I hope you guys can feel my big thanks radiating through your screens. It means a lot to me. And thanks for reading that whole story!
Despite the fact I was pretty sure already, this doubt kicked in here and there, which is a bit agonizing and exhausting. It’s hard to find closure that way but It also tells me that I still have to work on these last bits that are apparently still oblivious to what selfloving is. Getting this confirmation is freeing and healing.

I’ve been dissecting this site already (it’s the best btw), but it’s funny: despite it all I still had this doubt in my particular case because it seems really as if she is mentally disabled (or how do you call it, English is not my native language, excuse me), and combined with this victimhood, this so called attempt of hers to reconcile and my somewhat developed ability to understand pain, guilt came back through the backdoor. As if I should put my feelings aside once more and help the incapable, despite everything I know. But no. She’s as capable, and it’s always been her choice not to change, it’s always been her choice not to face her pain which would have developed her view and awareness. So yes, by now it might seem she has the mental capacity of a child in these areas, a child in pain. But that’s a choice indeed, it’s been a lifelong choice to stay there, a lifelong choice for which I had to pay a big price. Thank you for helping me to really realize that now.

And yes, her compassion doesn’t come across as really serious towards me and as if it’s all about her still. (Even if in between those confinements of hers it’s sincerely felt) She never took any action to it and that’s excactly what’s leaving the gap. Exactly that gap that makes mutual respect impossible.

And it’s funny (again), I wrote it down a bit clumsy: I do not demand change. With the way things are I am freed of any ‘want’ from her. But if she decides she wants to reconcile I do demand that change indeed 🙂

And Karen, sorry to hear that about having had such relationship with your mom..I can totally relate, and all I feel is relief.

Thank you all, you’ve helped set Didi free, it’s done ?

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the question mark needed to be a smiley haha

58

oe, one more thing: it’s Alaina, not Alaine. And i agree on all you said btw, thnx for that!

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Didi,
I read your post and felt compelled to let you know that you brought out some very good, sane questions and points. I was reading those parts to my 23 yr old son as we were having a philosophical discussion on “forgiveness”.

Let me add that I have looked at the idea of forgiveness for many years. I have asked many people to explain it. No one could. They explained tolerance, patience, understanding, boundaries, but never forgiveness. Or they used bible quotes. Here’s what I discovered through one of my experiences of someone who did wrong to me.

Forgiveness is an act brought on by the one doing the hurting. They must see what they did fully and ask the one they wronged for this “pardon” to not hold a grudge. They must want the healing between you both to release them and you from those feelings. If that doesn’t occur from them, how do you heal? You don’t. How do I know? I’ve experienced it in all ways. Asking for forgiveness and the act of forgiving is an act in and of itself. People put other words that mean different things to this, when it’s not (patience, tolerance, understanding, boundaries, etc.). The bible doesn’t give the whole story so I had to discount it for purposes of understanding this forgiveness concept. To read it from the New Testament, you would think forgiveness is a free ride to hell and slavery to others’ misdeeds.

The story I will recall was when I was about 13 yrs old, 6 neighbor girls(same age as me) proceeded to beat me up over a lie they purposely made up about me. This was very upsetting. About a month later, the leader of the group, Jill, came up to me at school and apologized profusely. That wasn’t all, she stayed with me the whole year, carrying my books, showing me the rooms, getting me picked first on teams, walking home with me if I wanted; essentially being my body guard and personal assistant. I finally told her to stop because she is forgiven and that I appreciated what she was doing. I couldn’t hold a grudge with her heart in the right place. She insisted on doing these things for me anyway through the year.

Now here’s the thing, if she had not apologized and made full reparation, I couldn’t have felt the healing in me and between us. Because she did this act, I was able to heal and even NOT ATTACH THE HURT TO THE MEMORY. Of course you don’t FORGET big hurts, but when no forgiveness is asked for, then you still hold the hurt to the memory. This is so normal because we all want peace and harmony in all our relationships. Non-healing over hurts is just pain. The person who did the hurting must recognize this, although many don’t care, are disconnected from their true selves to do this, or ashamed to face the other person. Yes, Didi, we are all responsible for our own selves at all times. But you are not responsible for someone else’s choices to hurt you. It’s your choice to decide when and if you are ready to cut them out or cut down your interaction with them, set boundaries to see if they are respected, etc. It’s not easy with a parent, but I did all of the above and when nothing helped, I made a full No Contact with my mother. Of course that had it’s own backlash from siblings, of whom I had to cut off as well because of their crazy abusive remarks and interference in my life and my children. I wish you the best and know you will find peace. There is peace for you from you in there.

Darlene,
I had no contact with my mother because she was making my life worse with her lies and gossip and egging on the family to come against me while I was going through a nasty divorce with my ex-abusive husband. She was partly always like this and partly losing her mind from drugs and dementia. Here I was, single mom, no job, 4 kids – I lost a lot of money just trying to stop the ex from putting me on the streets, literally. So I cut her off to stop the trouble where I could. She wouldn’t stop after my requests. When she died, I did not miss her. I felt relieved. To this day, 5 yrs later and re-checking inside: nope, still don’t miss her. I don’t miss anyone I cut off. I’m relieved and at peace to not have their drama and toxic behaviors/words around me.

Love,
Laurie

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Karen,
I wrote to Darlene, but my comment was actually meant for you! I misread my email names.
Laurie

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Hi Laurie,

Nice my story causes philosophical discussions ?, and probably in some total other part of the world, I find it cool. It’s indeed funny how much confusion there is about what forgiveness really is, and I agree on your findings for 100%. Nice story btw, *your personal servant* for a year..except for the part where they beat you.

I agree the traditional forgiveness can’t take place if the one doing the hurting doesn’t heal the situation.
The kind of forgiveness that can take place if someone doesn’t want to heal it is indeed more like finding closure, to find peace with the position he or she belongs relative to you, which you have to determine depending on the situation.
The other kinds of forgiveness in these intances are not real, unless these people practice selfhate and denial, and can only serve in order to feel like a good/virtious person.

I’ve cracked my mind over this kind of stuff as well, and my parents where probably the biggest cause of this. I think it’s actually this site again that played a big part in getting some straight insights.

It’s good you told me your story, it highlighted some stuff I really need to stay a bit conscious of for a while still even though things seem to be set in the right place for good now. My mama seems to have this magical effect on me where I tend to forget how things work. I pasted your text in my dairies, with some sentences in bold ? like the one that I’m not responsible for someone elses choice to hurt me. That’s a good way of putting it in one sentence. And also the fact i will feel on it’s own accord if someone is real in their attempts to make up for a situation.

I really appreciate it, and thank you. I wish you all the best too!

Love, Didi

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again i see i question mark pop up while it should have been a smiley (first sentence)

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and another, after the word bold. i need to say because it looks weird *smiley*

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“It’s in the past……. Leave the past alone…..”

I have learned that anyone who says this, is refusing to be held accountable. Heck, I got my mom to admit she didn’t want to be held accountable. I had to do a “Law and Order SVU Interrogation” to get her to say it…….

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The one part where I get stuck is in trying to get beyond wanting ” them” to see what they did to me. It is like wanting an apology that is never going to come. It sounds like others are also stuck in this same place.

Amber, I still WANT that “apology” and for them to admit the wrongdoing. I got Mom to give me ONE apology. I just kept at her and at her at how WRONG it was…… Plus, I wanted the apology to come from HER and not because she got tired of me harassing. There is a difference. I got ONE “sincere” apology. I am going to keep on going for the others.

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DXS, the whole thing to me is about power. They had all this power over us to hurt, damage, define, control, etc. When we keep hounding them to validate, to me then they’re still the ones holding all the power. I wonder if it’s truly possible to be satisfied even if you pulled out all the confessions you wanted and not be left with a “now what?” feeling. To “let it go” and walk away from the wanting, to leave them with the job of figuring shit out and coming to YOU when they finally understand, to apologize, to ask for your forgiveness etc., while you’ve already gone on with the business of living, to me seems the only hope to find balance, self-empowerment and to finally equalize power, although truthfully they may never come to you finally understanding, etc., so that an equality-based relationship may never be possible. It’s probably the hardest thing, though, really—to just give up all that and leave it to them to figure out… or not. To let life be whatever it’ll be, etc.

67

A part me wants an apology, too. (A real one, not a so-called one that blames me or something else.)

But, I feel life is too short to wait for an apology that may never come. For me, the more time passes, the less I yearn for an apology from my family. It’s a sad truth that I’m starting to admit to myself, that they probably will never be sorry, and continue to see me as the whiny ingrate who abandoned her family. The same goes for my peers who bullied me throughout K-12. I have done some “Internet spying” on them, and noticed some have gotten married and had kids. I’m not sure if some of them have a guilty conscience about what they did to me. Or maybe some do, but have no way of contacting me. Nonetheless, I’m just going to keep living my private, quiet life, and if family and old school peers are truly sorry, they are responsible for proving it. The ball isn’t in my court to apologize even if they think it is.

68

Laurie.. you explained it so well. My mother always “acted” like she didn’t mean to be hurtful. I just took it the wrong way,according to her..too emotional, too sensitive, crazy etc.. No. She was thoughtless, uncaring and deliberately hurtful for whatever reason. Whatever it was about me that she disliked all I could get out of her directly was “unhuggable”.
She never saw herself as culpable for her direct acts against anyone. They were always a response to some real or imagined wrong done to her. That was her justification. That made everything OK in her mind. If you brought it up again, she would stone-wall you. Not respond. Nothing ever got resolved that way. Then she would act like nothing happened. If I got upset at this treatment, then I was ‘acting crazy again’. The 4 yrs I was no contact allowed me to grieve the relationship I think. For when I read on Facebook that she died I felt nothing but the relief feeling.

Boy did you explain forgiveness well! “Forgiveness is an act brought on by the one doing the hurting.”
Oh yes. I recently went to apologize to a friend I had wronged 6 years ago. I had done the hurting. She listened to me, said she forgave me but she no longer wished me to be her friend. I told her I understood that. She was very adult about it. It was very difficult to knock on that door. I was ashamed at my previous behavior. I hope she knew I was sincere. Even with forgiveness, though, some relationships can’t be fixed. I hope she found closure in it.

S1988 At some point in the no contact I kind of let go of waiting for the validation from my mother and brother. When I really looked thru all the interactions spanning 50+ years I realized neither of them saw me as a worthwhile person. In finally seeing that, hurtful as it was, I stopped waiting and hoping for reconciliation. I am reading a book called Safe People. They fit the definition of unsafe.

69

I love what Alaina said; This whole thing IS about power (and the misuse of power) ~ it is extremely hard to just give up the hope in them and let them figure it out, but for me it is freedom to have done it. But accepting that they are NOT going to validate

I can honestly say that I pulled out, and got through the “now what?” too. My mother stuck to her careless dismissal of me. My father contacted me recently and for the first time in my entire life, I think he heard me; only time will tell if our relationship will heal or not but my happiness (since I have already found it without their approval or apology) does not depend on what happens with him. One thing I have decided for sure is that I am not going to ‘teach him’ how to have a relationship ~ I am done being responsible for all outcomes when it comes to the people that discounted me. Going forward, he is responsible for how this ends up. After all, he says he is trying to clean up his side of the street so we shall see.

Great discussion everyone!
hugs, Darlene

70

Darlene , I’ve got a bit of an unrelated question for you… did you find your physical health suffered (like I don’t know, headaches, muscle aches, problems with eating or sleeping, always getting colds and flus for example) before you started your healing process and did you find your overall health improved as you worked through your past and began to love and accept yourself? Thanks 🙂

71

Hi Sea and Sky
Yes, I was actually shocked to realize how much my health improved as I went through the healing process! Some things were astonishing, for instance, I had very irregular periods for quite a few years and suddenly they straightened out and became completely regular AND PMS disappeared completely.
This stuff totally effects health!
Hugs, Darlene

72

Darlene,
I feel like there gets to be something addictive when we’re in pursuit of validation, truth, love from others. not even just with parents but in general. I have to watch myself when I’m wanting to squeeze out love where it doesn’t exist… like “whoa, Alaina, this isn’t necessary, you’re fine, everything is just fine.” It’s like the wanting to cure is what makes you sick.
Interesting about your dad. I hope it turns out and he steps up. 🙂
hugs

73

Alaina,
I totally hear you on that! I also have to remind myself that I am fine when people don’t approve of me ~ Living this way with the strong new beliefs I have isn’t attractive to everyone. Not everyone wants to live in equally valuable relationships. I find a lot of my friends husbands have felt threatened by the way that my marriage works and I have seen women start to pull away from me and I although I feel the pain of loss, I am not going to pretend that my husband is more valuable than I am to prove that I am a worthy (or whatever) friend. I AM a worthy friend, but I also live exactly how I write/teach.

About my dad, I find myself feeling really protective of myself. There is a bit of fear of course, that he is playing some sort of ‘game’ and he will flake as always. After all these years, why has he decided to try now?? There is a part of me that is suspicious that this is still all about him and his pride. By the way, he has informed me that he is reading my blog, (one of the things I talked to him about was accepting my blog and that if really wanted to get to know me and how I feel, he should read it) so there is a good chance that he will read this comment, and that is fine with me. My blog and I are like a package deal now. 🙂 I have nothing to hide and nothing to defend.
Love and hugs, Darlene

74

I guess there are exceptions when it comes to health. I don’t have any health problems, but my mother does. It’s interesting that even though she has COPD, she doesn’t let it get in the way of her toxic personality. If I had a chronic illness, I would do the best I can to manage it while engaging in a hobby, not seek to create drama.

But, I do have to admit that since not being around her, I feel less guilty about assertiveness. I was raised with the odd idea that it was bad to express anger/disagreement, yet I was expected to stand up to bullies, and since I was more worried about being “mean” than setting boundaries, apparently being picked on was my fault. It’s still a bit of a struggle sometimes, but I’m glad now I can be assertive in my own way instead of relying on mixed messages.

75

Hi Darlene,
I totally understand about your dad. You’ve had a lifetime of reasons not to trust him, so it would be a concern if you weren’t feeling protective of yourself and suspicious of his motives. There must be a story behind why now, some sort of catalyst (or maybe just the persistence of your message and exposure on this blog, etc). I can definitely see your concern, though. Anyway, that all doesn’t matter much in the face of just taking care and being yourself! 🙂

76

Alaina
I believe that he contacted me because his sister in law died and his brother has terminal cancer and only has a few months to live. I believe this sparked my father to reach out because he reminded me that he is 80 years old. (and I know how old he is so his need to remind me was more about him and his own mortality.)

My entire family has known about my blog since at least the second year of its publication. (it is over 6 years old now) My father admitted to not reading it because my brother told him that it may be hurtful to him. I asked my father about that and he said my brother told him that I call my father “a passive abuser”. I replied that is exactly what a father that treats his child the way he has treated me, is called. 🙂 It felt good to say it to his face (well over the phone). He didn’t defend himself which was also nice.

I told him I would like to write about our reconciliation if that should happen. He didn’t object. But having said all that, we are a long way off of reconciliation. I am going to take this very slowly for the reasons that I stated above and yes, ‘just taking care of myself’. 🙂

hugs, Darlene

77

Hi Sea & Sky,

The question whether trauma influences health.. Might sound weird, but trauma is stored in the body, or actually the energetic (emotional) body, which directly influences the physical body. All the emotions that are suppressed are stored in the (emotional) body, (cause that’s what happens when experiencing trauma. it’s too much to feel so we suppress it and therefore store it). These things want to be felt so they never leave until we feel them, no exceptions. It’s like having to empty a glass: by feeling stuff, it is being poured out.

And when we start the process of healing, we become more aware, so that’s why it might appear health temporarily deteriorates even, or that we become more sensitive. and of course things like insomnia happen because of fears and stuff that come to the surface. it’s like energetic clearing, all the dirt comes out, all the blockages come to the surface. (and trauma is of course also stored in the brain, headaches might actually be just knots due to stored trauma)
You can compare this process with things like having eaten fast food all your life, and then the moment you start to feel what it’s doing to you, your ability to handle it becomes less and less. So yes, in the years before things start to surface, your health might have seemed just fine even.

but this dirt and the blockages were always in there. i think this is why people who don’t clear out their trauma’s are actually more prone to develop serious illnesses. they just walk on (lots of the times totally in their heads) with all that stuff in their bodies without being aware, without feeling it coming, without feeling the resistance in their bodies that they are testing constantly, hence the trouble. bit generalizing, but it’s actually the general situation.

think in english it would be called body work. i do that, and it’s actually quite interesting. it’s basically based on being touched at right places, and so you become aware of the stuck up, tensed places. those places are actually related to specific trauma’s. and when being touched you become aware, and the themes related to it start coming to the surface, wanting to be processed. it speeded up my process. i can recommend it, with a good practitioner though. but some awareness of the body is needed.

people who are very unaware, their bodies feel like a brick, literally. this is what my practitioner says, it’s nothing like tender meat. so it’s difficult for them to understand this therapy is actually useful, they are not feeling it, so they often discard it as hippy trippy. which actually is kind of trippy, i think it’s really weird, even though i understand why this stuff happens with people. so some body awareness is favorable to make this therapy happen, but it’s very real.

and yes, my health had deteriorated as well, and the fun part is that i really notice stuff was really related to my state of being. energy levels, body functions, everything, and that this stuff vanishes once i recover, which is happening, it’s like having taken a shower, but then on the inside. some stuff is only partially influenced by things like sports, food etc, the real improvement only comes once the trauma’s are gone.

78

Thank you, Karen R! I can relate to what your saying about your mother. It’s a diversion and she isn’t listening with an open heart. I think when you care about yourself, you don’t want to hurt others or be held with guilt for hurting another. I’m sorry you get stonewalled. It’s like telling you that you’re not a person, or you are not going to make her see herself any different than she chooses – even at the cost of your well-being. It’s a lot like neglect. I think there’s more damage from those things because you can’t even fight back! No answers, no exploration, no discussion. “My way or the highway” Wow!

I’m amazed at the permissiveness of our society through the misuse of the concept of “forgiveness” to let the offenders get off the hook of personal responsibility. People put that work on the ones who got hurt, or somehow “you brought it to you”. That’s the new age teaching. It’s wrong. It doesn’t work that way no matter how you slice it. I can’t fix what is broken in another, and I’m not their punching bag for crazy thinking. Lots of indifference and denial, people wrapped up in so many of their lying excuses that they fail to see how foggy it is between their ears. Someone always gets the backlash from people like that – they run on automatic instead of consciousness. It’s so sad. Especially difficult when it is a parent/spouse/close family member. My thing is I get bothered when someone lies to twist the facts, lies about me and I get wind of it, or worse still, telling me who I am and my motives based on their shallow opinions (which trickles downstream into comments, actions, alienation, hatred, etc.). I’ll listen to see if they have a valid point, but not if it’s done with animosity or ill-will or ignorance.

My family would get really mad at me because I tend to be blunt with the truth or defended myself from being psychoanalyzed or didn’t do my expected duties in the family as a female. I got cut off as “punishment” a few times. Long story, short. At first it hurt. Then sanity hit me (after 10 years of this back and forth with them). Why do I need their approval? I hit my hand to my head and said, Duh, I don’t have to service them if I’m cut off. I’m FREE!!!! When I finally cut THEM off, it wasn’t punishment, it was protection from their burdens in my life, their games, etc. Hopeless. I wanted a relationship, but it came with too many obligations, expectations, performances. I was just burned out on them, and liked my new found freedom too much to chain myself to their prison.

Didi,
The conversation of forgiveness came up with my oldest daughter 2 days ago. Me and my kids get into these types of discussions from time to time. Anyway, someone I love keeps hurting me and is a “repeat offender”. I’m so fed up, I want to see him hurt like me. She was trying to tell me to let go and let god, while quoting me the bible, stuff about loving them, etc. I disagreed because one sometimes one feels the need to be vindicated when hurt deeply or frequently. The forgiver can choose to let go of this need if the one who hurt them asks in some form for forgiveness, through words, perception, understanding and conscious behavioral ways. She totally disagreed. I challenged her to explain “forgiveness”, but I had 2 conditions: don’t use the bible or google definitions. So I went off to do my part by researching books on it. I ordered “Forgiveness: A Philosophical Exploration” from my library. I had this blog open about then when my son came into the room. Your post caught my attention with your questions and comments. Good timing to see Darlene’s post and your post when I’m researching what true forgiveness really means.

Darlene,
You have a way of shooting the answers to the center of things most people are lost on. I love the concepts you understand and communicate. I am reminded of a quote: a prophet is not accepted in his own home. I think the families we grew up in see us a certain way and that’s that for some. Good for you for being brave enough to lay it all out on the table for your family to see. I hope they wake up!

Love, Laurie

79

DXSMac, RE: your comments 64 and 65; yes, those who tell you to leave the past in the past do have a reason for it. They fear what is going to come out and how it will affect them. If they didn’t do anything wrong, they would have nothing to fear, would they?
I’ve done a lot of thinking since I wrote my comment the other day #15 about being stuck in wanting ” them” to see what they did wrong. Why was this so important to me? Did I think if they suddenly came to me and admitted they were wrong that it would cancel out the damage they did? No, it wouldn’t. Not when there were far reaching effects like how I view mys of and how I interact with the world around me. Darlene is spot on when she says we have to deal with the damage and the lies we were groomed to believe if we want to heal. If an apology was suddenly dropped on my doorstep with all the bells and whistles, it is not going to make everything right. I would still have to tackle the false beliefs and my coping methods, the damage that was done to me, and I would still need to validate myself. I’ve been concentrating these past few days on what is best for me. When a negative belief about myself crops up, I have been asking myself questions to test the value duty of what I am thinking. For example, today I was thinking about how my mother taught me I was less important than my brothers. I asked myself ” are you less important than them?” Is what my mother said true? Why would they be more important just because they were the boys? The more questions I asked myself, the less logical my mother’s viewpoint seemed. I also did some self care today. I decided I wasn’t going to rush around this morning taking care of everyone else’s needs and short changing my own needs. I made sure I took some extra time for me. And I bought shoes today. Nothing fancy, just comfortable shoes, I can enjoy the warmer weather in. It certainly made for a happier day than ruminating on that missing apology that didn’t ( and won’t) land on my doorstep.

80

Grrrrrr, spellcheck once again mangled my comment! But I think it still delivers my message!

81

Hi Laurie,

I think your explanation about when forgiveness can truly take place THE BEST. The funny thing is i already told my mom something in that direction. Something like ‘A healthy mom in your place would want to give to world to make up. Give your right arm if necessary’. And i think healthy mothers actually would in my case. Not that i demand her right arm, but it’s that gesture that’s needed, that gesture that’s shows somebody is willing to put himself aside to do whatever it takes to make up. And yes, a certain amount of deeds to make up for the gap is needed, trust needs to be built, deeds need to show the one who did the hurting is sincere. So i said that, but only after reading your comment i realized this realization of what actually is required, how it needs to feel, hadn’t really settled in within me. I didn’t realize yet that this is actually how things need to feel so past hurts can truly be healed in a relationship. But thanks to you, it now does.

Coincidences don’t exist if you ask me. And you already had the answer to your question very well formulated. It’s like mutual exchange because, you also pointed me out what i already sort of knew, but now fully realize and you completed that insight.

And i have to mention guys, these really seem like these last bits on my way to completion..today i was on the back of a scooter, with the wind blowing through my hair, enjoying the sun..feeling this real sense contempt which is really unlike me hahaha. your comments indeed seem like this last straw, that final confirmation that put an end to that black stuff.

and for you with that guy Laurie, i’d say the best thing you can do is fully respect your hurt and the way you feel like wanting to react above all and love yourself for it. and if you feel like it, show him. forget that forgiveness stuff indeed 🙂 I’m sorry he’s hurting you!

82

Some additiions to my comment #77 about this health thing, cause I’m not satisfied with what I said.

My health was never fine actually, I always seemed to have lower energy levels than others, always had troubles with my sinuses and other stuff that I couldn’t explain.

But my health did worsen when working through stuff. Guess this has to do with the emotions that surface of course, and also the temporarily worsening of certain self destructive patterns that tried to escape all these things that surfaced.

But the other thing is that continuing on survival mode, without having processed my stuff was testing my system so this was the main thing that worsened my health slowly. So when I was younger things seemed relatively fine healthwise compared to the point I needed to change. And of course the deterioration of my health paralleled psychological stuff surfacing.

Don’t know who was first, the deterioration of my health, or the surfacing of spychological stuff that needed attention, but I guess these things are perfectly intertwined.

So it’s not only because we become more aware that health seems to become more sensitive. I needed to correct that.

83

Hi Didi, I have to respectfully disagree. I was really into psychotherapy and body therapy. I’ve read all the books: Peter Levine, Bessel van der Kolk etc. But you know what, I felt worse and worse. All those psychology and self-help books are scaremongering that something will be permanently wrong with you unless you do that particular therapy. As I said I was actually feeling worse and worse the more I learnt about body therapy.

Eventually I took heed of the Einstein quote which says that madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. So I did something different. I read books that were critical of psychotherapy (not the religious ones but the scientific review ones) and that really got me out of the rut. Unfortunately, the vast vast majority of these so-called therapies are not validated by proper studies and work anecdotally or as a placebo effect. The reason I love Darlene’s work is because I have come to realise the way to resolve issues is through your own exploration through of the truth. If people want to go to a therapist to help them with this that’s fine by me. If people want to go to a therapist for any type of therapy that’s fine by me, whatever works for them. However, everyone should know that most therapies have absolutely no basis in science but the placebo effect is very powerful. Studies show that the biggest predictor of whether a therapy will work is not the technique used but the client’s belief in whether it will work.
Darlene discovered the truth with the help of a therapist and that’s awesome. Sometimes we really need an outside perspective or someone to point us in the right direction but as Darlene says she had to do the work of untangling the lies herself. That to me is the crux of it.

I don’t believe any such trauma energy is stored in the body. I believe people who have been abused have a very low opinion of their ability to cope with conflict and become extremely wary of other people and are always on the look out for more abuse and so get very tense and are always stressed. This is not stored trauma energy but a habit, a habitual belief and defence mechanism. Once you work through the truth and realise you don’t need those habits anymore you start to relax.

This is all fits in with what Darlene has written about. In fact, my own turning point was when I saw a video by Dr. Terry Lynch who is a therapist that works with very difficult cases and he said that what we call mental illnesses are not illnesses but defence mechanisms. Whatever we do, even if it seems painful and ineffective, has at some point had a very rational purpose (but obviously doesn’t anymore). It’s a behaviour that we can change through looking at through our past, like Darlene has done. It’s not a memory or energy that someone has to empty out of us.

I could go on, it’s a topic very close to my heart but I’ll leave some authors’ names in case you’re interested in following this up. I just again want to emphasise I’m not against individuals going to any kind of therapy if they find it useful and helpful. I was a champion of therapy for a long time because common sense and popular belief says that it works. But I didn’t move on with my life until I ditched therapy because unfortunately, a lot of therapists (body workers included) actually undermine people’s resilience and help them to continually feel like victims of forces beyond their control or are just a listening ear for our venting and don’t actually help in any practical way. It sounds like Darlene had a rare kind of therapist that built her resilience up and didn’t insist she was a traumatised victim for life and helped her do her own work. You are very lucky Darlene.

Further reading:
Tana Dineen
Dr. Peter Breggin
Thomas Szasz
Dr. Philip Hickey (blog ‘Behaviourism and Mental Health’)
Possibly Dr. Bruce Levine

84

Oh one more, I forgot one of the most important books I read that helped me move forward: Frank Furedi’s “Therapy Culture” and how therapism pervades our society and undermines resilience. These books are all about psychology as a whole, not about individual therapists of which I believe there are definitely competent and effective ones.

85

Hi Sea & Sky,

I respect your opinion, but I do disagree here en there.

The fact body therapy made you feel worse, probably was this indication it worked. Because it is actually the not nice stuff that is presenting itself first (And this can go on for a long time. Actually, probably this can go on quite endlessly, because I never met a person who is absolutely and totally free, totally enlightened. This might seem discouraging, but there is a point when the fun part in life becomes so prevalant, that it’s of no use to go looking for these bits of pain left).
I never feel ok when I leave after my sessions, that’s what I came for, it’s not like getting a massage for fun.

The same goes for the psyche, if you want to find your true self, you have to first undo the lies you’ve learned about yourself, you have to first get rid of the pain before the sun can shine. It’s first the wounds that need to be healed before it can be truly fun.

I never had freed myself from a trauma before literally revisiting the traumatic events. And the cognitive level alone does only do half the trick. For instance, it is actually the fear I needed to feel, the fear I had to avoid feeling back in the days, that is actually freeing, it’s not sheer insight alone that gets me there.

And for instance, if somebody close dies, one needs to grieve. If a person does not grieve, the grief will actually remain inside a person until a person does grieve. It’s like that, expierences are stored, emotions are stored. And it’s not the fun stuff we refuse to feel at the moment of the event, it’s the bad stuff we tend to suppress.

That’s what I meant with the analogy that it’s like having to empty a glass. What has been put in, must come out first.

And maybe body therapy is just not your thing. I never said it’s a crucial thing. The fact it may feel like things will permanently be wrong if you dive into certain therapies but decide to not to use them, doesn’t mean that a therapy can’t be useful. They can all add up in their own ways, there are lots of ways to Rome, it’s just a matter of deciding which one works best.

I agree with you a most crucial thing is common sense. That’s what got me through. And I choose my therapists carefully because there is a lot of not-so-good out there. And then still, indeed it was me at home playing with the ingsights I gathered and finding out what is actually exactly the problem, because in the end it is indeed no one else but me who knows best how I am constructed. Therapists can come close at best. And that’s logical, because they always have their perspective, constructed of their own experiences, not my viewpoint.
The best insights and the most freeing experiences came when I was all be my self, but often I couldn’t have done that without the input I gathered from all sorts of resources.

But the best insights also came when incorperating the feeling process. And whatever kind of therapy that is, doesn’t matter, it can also be done without therapy. But traumatic events evoke we had to use the brain to navigate in environments that were unsafe in some way, so the brain on it’s own rarely looks beyond the confinements it ended up in. It’s by going through things like fear, and by processing certain grieves that hold on to stuff that will widen the view, so one can come up with better solutions.
And that’s also where a therapist in general can be favorable, because otherwise I would have had more chance on risking to keep trying to find solutions within these confinements of what helped me survive, which is not very helpful.

And yes I agree, I stay far away from the kind of people and therapists that explain stuff as psychological ‘disorders’, because it are healthy coping mechanisms, healthy responses to a sick environment.

But despite that, these coping mechanisms and emotional and mental states can weigh heavy on a person, and literally make them sick. And you are overlooking the fact that things like low opinion of one’s self, things like waryness are direct expressions of trauma. And those may be common themes expressing themselves in seemingly simular ways, but there are diffirences from person to person, this unique cocktail of experiences that therefore create a unique expression of health issues.

But you will have to dive into the matter to see that indeed there is a relation between certain health issues and certain emotions, pains, trauma’s.

I’m pro science, I like it when science is able to back up things with actual proof, but if it was according to science alone the earth would still be flat so to speak. And I do notice in the world of science there tends to be a fear of the unknown and the chance of arrogance, a mindset I’m not too fond of. That mindset is out to debunk everything this is not yet prooved by science and ridicule it, especially when it comes to this kind of stuff, which simultaniously isn’t the kind of stuff that will provide a lot of money once prooved.

But on that matter I could go on. It’s also the quantum physics that is concluding stuff like the observer is influencing stuff, this is not just all placebo stuff, it’s very real and it goes deep. This also explains that the mindset of certain typical scientists tends to infuence stuff negatively when looking at outcomes of things on these subtile levels they often are at least sceptical about.

But it’s my personal experience that body and mind are related to each other, and it is this personal experience I take serious despite what science may say. According to a lot of science the body is just some sort of machine and apart from the rest. But it’s so logical, as soon as the mind is whole, the body will follow. And everything is programmed for selfhealing, to become whole. Awareness also never goes backwards. Because of standstill it might only seem that way sometimes, because of deterioration of the physical stuff that’s often caused by this it also might seem that way sometimes. And I haven’t looked it up, but maybe there have been some scientific researches by now the actually back up what I’m saying.

86

Hi Didi, I think we will just have to agree to disagree. For each person the proof is in the pudding. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence of all kinds of therapies working for all sorts of people but there is also a lot of negative evidence of therapy doing more harm than good. Sometimes it’s the particular technique but most of the time it’s simply because much of psychotherapy has this idea that there is something wrong with you that you can’t do anything about yourself and that only the therapist knows the solution and can fix you with their favourite technique.

I wasted a lot of time in that rabbit hole. It’s just another form of victimisation and teaching the client to feel helpless without the therapist and aggravates the feeling of dependence learned from abuse. This happens not only in individual therapy but is obvious in the books and articles these psychologists write. This is thoroughly explained by Frank Furedi and Tana Dineen.

Lastly, the history of psychotherapy is something that one needs to look at to understand how we got to this point. Unfortunately, Freud’s idea of the subconscious and unconscious is nothing but an idea, not a fact, yet most of our ideas of the psyche are based on this and the related idea of catharsis. This seems to me what body work is based on. It is telling that non-Western cultures do not have the same ideas. Thomas Szasz thoroughly documents all this history in his excellent “The Myth of Psychotherapy”.

This is why I have found Darlene’s blog more useful than any therapy or self-help book. She has got to the heart of the matter and encourages strength and resilience because she explains that at the end of the day the change is YOUR hands. The change comes from looking at the truth and people changing their beliefs into truthful and healthy ones because it’s behaviour, it’s our behaviour (and thinking is a type of behaviour) that needs changing. It’s through reflection and then choosing to behave and believe differently that we get there (even if it’s difficult). A competent therapist can help you reflect and choose new ways of behaving but so can a wise friend. I wish you well on your journey and I know that my life started flourishing when I stopped delving into therapy material (especially body work) and started reflecting, using Darlene’s thoughtful and very helpful blog as encouragement.

87

Hi Sea and Sky,

I’m not sure about therapies in general being based in weak theories. I’ve found some therapy/professional counseling very helpful, and some that was damaging. It seemed to me that it was the individual therapist or counselor that was right or wrong for me.

What I want to emphasize however is that I STRONGLY agree with your comments about Darlene’s blog. I appreciate the encouragement she provides to separate truth and lies so that we can believe and behave out of truth. She acknowledges it’s hard and takes time and allows us to learn to be patient with ourselves. She introduced for me a perspective that I hadn’t seen before and it made a huge difference.

Hobie

88

Hey Sea & Sky,

I experience myself it’s handy and sometimes nessecary to have someone around who knows stuff and who can help see the way through some rough parts. But a capable friend will do as fine.

As far as the story with conscious vs sub-conscious goes I experience this as true. Those experiences through which you get acquainted with life are perceived as normal, as true, so it’s a matter of undoing that, and that lies within the subconscious.

And I have enountered therapists that did more harm than good, which can be kind of hardcore experiences. I’ve been insitutionalized for 5 months, not forced btw, but the therapists there were really challenging. Which was really upsetting in such desperate state in which you undertake such thing, I can tell you. To get the weirdest conclusions about you, the worst advices, and all that while in deep doubt already, and trying to make sense of yourself is hard, but it have been the best learning experiences. To be helped by getting anti-help is the best sometimes haha. But this is not due to certain kinds of therapy, it’s because of superficiality, it’s due to lack of life experience of the therapist.

I have not been there, but to me it does sound like you did not experience a good help along with body therapy. I wasn’t there of course. But the stuff that surfaces with me, it’s works on for a period, so if there’s no one with good advice around, that can be tough, maybe even counterproductive.

And this thing about body work, I didn’t mention it because I wanna convince anyone to do it, I just mentioned it in my explanation that health/psyche are related, cause that was your question. And I wouldn’t mention stuff that’s based on vague assumptions, i value my time and energy too much for that stuff. I just experience that reflecting with feeling incorperated does the trick for me. And body work is just a way of becoming (more) conscious of certain emotions.

But I did not intent to end up in defending my experiences. Especially with these kinds of things it’s this gray area where there is a lot of scepticism, of which I know it’s almost useless to try and convince. And it’s not even that I try to convince anyone, but this funny need to proof I’m not crazy whaha.

Wish you well on your way too!

89

Hi Darlene,
Re: your dad… I was thinking if I were in your shoes, I’d heed your instincts. They’re probably right. Of course I don’t know but I feel like if there was true change, you’d know–it would hit you to the core, break through to your heart (because that’s what love does). Likely if you feel really protective of yourself, it’s because you know (or some part of you knows) it’s not the real deal. Again I don’t know and I’m sure it’s a kind of wait and see process to give the person a chance if you want and when it’s a parent, I can see as the child wanting to give them a chance if they say they really do want to change things. But yeah, I hope you protect your heart lots. I feel like parents will always have the power to hurt us to some degree because I don’t believe we can ever truly get rid of the desire for their love 100%. We can accept if they can’t/won’t but like it’s just some tiny flame that’s still there in our hearts that can’t be gotten rid of (and probably shouldn’t try to get rid of, like it’s just biological and needed in some way maybe, somehow tied into our capacity to love maybe? at its source kind of, I don’t know)… That’s how I feel about things in my own situation anyway. Things are still pretty raw for me though. My heart hurts very easily, no matter how much my brain gets it.

90

Hobie, message 87, yes, Darlene’s blog has helped me learn about the lies and the truth in my own life as well. I was flabbergasted when I first started reading her three years ago, because I so deeply accepted the lie that was ingrained in me from birth that I was ugly, inferior and unworthy. I had never even thought that there could be another perspective. My false ” truth” was the only perspective to the point that I accepted all those lies as fact. It hit me like a ton of bricks to think for the first time that these were lies. Once I knew in my heart that these were lies, I not only started looking at myself differently; it also relieved me of the life long burden of trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Imagine struggling for decades to come up with that answer and always hitting dead ends. It’s because I never was defective, so there was never an answer to that question!
I still have some areas that I struggle with, the hardest being to stop expecting people who have wronged me to own up to it. This has been my focus lately and I find I have to address it a little at a time because it really hurts that it is not going to happen. I’m just trying to stay focused on the truth and working on self validation, and when it gets overwhelming I put it down for a while and gone back to it again later when I feel stronger.

91

Amber

That’s a bit of a hurdle for me, too, letting go of the hope that cruel people will change. However, I notice that the older I get, the more cynical I am of them changing, and I’m not even thirty yet.

Real life is not like fiction where the villain starts off being evil, but has a change of heart near the end of the story. I still believe cruel people can change for the better, but I feel it’s a low chance of that happening, especially after breaking my first hiatus with my family, and felt like I’ve been used and lied to. Now, I know I’d be foolish to give them another chance, no matter how many hoovering messages I get (which is rare, thank goodness).

It’s a sad truth I have to admit, but at least it shows that I’m less naive than I used to be.

92

Hi Sea & Sky, (and hi in general),

The way you respond feels like you interpret what I am saying slightly the wrong way and as if it is going against what this forum stands for.

To me it comes across as if you explain it as if I try to escape self-responibility and sanity by using vague therapies, or that I would be believing in therapies that tell me I couldn’t help myself. I respect you might not put trust in this body work thing though. I myself am still surprised at what it does, so I understand that.

All I can say is that I am very actively working to process stuff from about 2009. I had to build myself from scratch, literally, so I do actually kind of know what I am talking about by now.

And my body had been very wrecked for years and years, so yes, I did become aware of my body a lot. And I did become aware of the relationship between body/mind. Something I find really interesting.

To me it’s commom sense that in order to change certain behaviours it can involve stuff like having to face things like fears, things that can prevent a person from seeing the truth or it can prevent a person from changing even if on some level he/she would understand a truth. I have also experienced these things extensively first hand.

And gawd how I sometimes wished at those moments I could just get through just by changing a believe and by trying to keep amending my behaviours. Some things do ask for courage. Choosing to face these fears and other feelings can be seen as a behaviour too, it is a behaviour. But there is a diffirence between doing this, and thinking that deep issues can be changed simply by changing on a behavioural level. Cause if that is not what you actually state, i do not understand why we would still have to agree to disagree.

So yes, to me it’s commen sense that this whole process involves processing feelings, so it’s a bit surprsing to me it seems it is not being seen for what it is and even it feels as if it’s a bit ridiculed and as if what I am saying would undermine anything Darlene says. And I feel the need to correct that last thing just in case more people interpret this the wrong way. I’m not residing here on this forum by coincidence. As I said in my first comment, I respect Darlene a lot, and I’m really happy this forum exists.

And ps I actually do find it funny end up in this situation, because I am kind of nototrious for being serious, going for the truth and the authentic, no matter what, and everything but oblivious to nonsense in therapy land.

93

and i don’t know if i said it before, i do feel bad about your negative experiences with certain therapies en therapists, and if you still be would desire a good one, i do hope you would find i one!

94

Hi Sea and Sky,

I also have many horror stories regarding these “therapists”. I tried one after another and got nowhere with these people. If the purpose of therapy is healing then I was NOT helped at all and hurt more. I reached the point where I was angry and crying over having to go to my next appointment with a therapist.

The worst experiences I had was with a woman named Julie. This Julie had just earned her Master degree and thought that she was so special. She was positively clueless about my kind of abuse. Then we had a couple of sessions which led to arguing about politics. She could not let go of politics and drifted off the subject about my family issues. This same woman told me that she did couples counseling and there was a couple with a husband who actually hit her during the session. Apparently, Julie did not understand people at all! In my last appointment with her, she told me that she was quitting her private practice with clients to work with a home of disabled persons and she had the nerve to be laughing at them while telling me this! Julie could not care less about clients in her work, only about having the money as a secondary job for extra income in her family—-her husband being the breadwinner!

Like you, I am not alone. My friend, Joan, a woman who is old enough to be my mother also had problems with these therapists. I met Joan like 15 years ago at one of my spiritual groups. She came from a terribly dysfunctional family like mine and as an adult divorced from a mean husband. Joan moved to Southern California after her divorce and put herself through college and became a teacher. She tried the traditional talk therapy route back in the early 70s and it did not help her. One day she realized that she was wasting her time and money and simply quit. She decided to save her money and gas money and treat herself. On the weekend, she would treat herself at a nice cafe for a good meal and buy herself a metaphysical book. Sitting in a cafe, she told me that it was enough for her being surrounded by people and her book, without having to engage with people. My friend, Joan, joined a traditional self-help meetup group to talk and get support from like minded people. She also joined metaphysical groups and gained self knowledge through astrology and psychic divination. My friend learned how to heal herself without any need for talk therapy.

I get so much from the EFB site and learn by reading all the stories here. I feel as if I have grown as a person by being on this site.
I have other stories to share but you get the picture. I gave up on traditional talk therapy many years ago and learned that it was all about self healing.

I also believe in metaphysical healing as an adjunct to books and the EFB site. You might consider reading: “Soul Retrieval: Mending the Fragmented Self” by Sandra Ingerman. Her book is based on soul retrieval by the Native American healers. I had a session done once years ago by a healer and it was powerful. There is the belief that when you are traumatized by rape, abuse, or anything that a small soul fragment takes off into the astral realm. It takes a skilled metaphysical healer to journey into the astral realm with their guides and animal totems and bring back this lost piece of yourself. When I had the session with the healer, she brought back a big piece of myself when I was ten years old. She had no idea but at age ten, my parents had bought a new house and we moved into our second house and it was a very hard time for me. It was a powerful experience laying down on a blanket next to her and she woke me up with an Indian rattle. I promptly came down with a very bad cold the next day and that was a good thing since I was trying to integrate this soul piece back. Sadly, I could only afford one session with her since these sessions are expensive. I plan to have more sessions done in the future. I also believe in healing with laying on of crystals for clearing the past. Next year, I may also try Theta Healing by Vianna Stibal for clearing more of my past. My problem is being a single woman and being rather underemployed and lower income, although I have a college degree.

I wanted to suggest checking out the youtube videos by Daniel Mackler. Daniel Mackler was a psychotherapist for ten years with a Masters degree. The day came when he realized that he could not really “fix” or “save” anyone. He also came from a dysfunctional family. His videos are very inspiring and he is such an open and friendly person. He believes in self healing and natural remedies. He has books on Amazon that are very good. There are also the classic books by author Alice Miller from the point of view of the child. Excellent!

Glad to meet you on EFB!

Blessed be,

Yvonne

95

Hi all ‘ I am new to this forum and thanks God for this forum, thank you very much, Darlene, for your job ‘ I know I am not alone in it.
On my journey to recovery from severe domestic abuse/trauma, I had often heard, read the “get over it”, “forgive”, don´t dwell in the pst” (even from therapist, psychologist). I did not understand how to do better my healing, so I listened to what was available. It did not help me at all. I felt more uncapable, incompetent, guilty,ashamed, hopeless, utterly wrong that that I cannot just let go as others (as suggested). I like the question of defining the “it”. I feel that I can heal my abuse, traumatisation in my body only through going deep, remembering the truth, the moments of abuse, in a safe place. Not let go of, but validate it. Acknowledge that it was not my fault, it was a crime. My parents were not poor, abused children themselves, but often pretty much conscious adults who tortured me. I tested it many times that they are conscious, they have the knowledge of “what is too much”, “what not to show, not to talk about in the public”. It was severe abuse, it was not just “get over it”. I assume that many of those helping professionals don´t know what to do, how to help, so they throw away the general, quick-fix “get over it, you are adult”. Don´t bother me with your problems. I don´t have your problems (or I dump them at someone else). Perhaps the let it go works for people who search spiritual freedom, awakened consciousness, but it does not work for me. I must have compassionate someone (so far, I have only myself) who will go with me in the abusive moments and help me to process it, acknowledge it -the ABUSE, the CRIME, help me to escape from my abusers, to cut the contact if necessary with the last one- my mother.
I have head that in Norwegen, children are being taken away from abusive parents if only some signs of abuse/emotional, mental/ show up. If in the legal procedure comes out that the abuse was happening, the child is given to adoption. One does not wait that one day, the child can eventually “get over it”

I want to let go of my pain from the abuse, from the sickness stored in my body, from my life time I cannot live, but bear the consequences of others abused me. I will not let go of the story what happened. I´d like to close my eyes, and as in childhood, think of something else, stop thinking, cancel my childhood, my past. But, it is not the truth. It does not work this way. I will keep my story, but I hope the emotional attachment of it, will leave my body and mind.
?

96

Sorry, I wanted to post a “heart”, but somehow it does not work.

97

Hi Kristina,

I find it kind of astonisihing still to find that for every so called dysfunction within me, everything that’s makes me feel unhappy, everything that keeps me from making myself happy, there is a simple reason, which is only sometimes hard to find. And as if everytime I do not feel alright inside it’s all a matter of recognizing what was wrong outside, nothing else, nothing I need to forcefully change about me, this change will come once I recognize things. Once I pinpointed that it’s like a splinter I pull out, and this feeling allright and this functioning seemed to be my natural state. And sometimes it then becomes a matter of changing deeply engrainded habits, but that becomes much more easy then. As if it’s only a matter of pulling the veils off and all I was looking for was already there, and the pain that remains will leave, sometimes rapidly. I sometimes experience that really clear now. I was fiercely hooked on love for instance. I broke that spell, never knew I could, I never knew there would be life after this as well. And the most weird thing I had to discover about it, was that I was always looking for this love with people who never had it, no matter how high on a pedestal I had put m initially. And I almost had to puke when I discovered their threads resembled that of my mom a lot. There is still stuff to repair but this one was really huge with me and every day i am delighted i got rid of that one for various reasons. And it never helped to try to get over this, how many times I heard that one..people who got fed up with these patterns within me sometimes left, which was really painful at the time. But now I am happy they did, because these people were not fit for me, and still would not fit, even if i am doing so much better now.

Wish you the best!

I like Norway btw. These Scandinavian countries look like they doing quite well on some matters.

98

and by the way, people looking for spiritual freedom, awakened conscious, ascension and stuff, i don’t know how they try to do that, but how you aim at doing things as the actual way, the other stuff is fairy tales.

99

Hi Kristina!
Welcome to EFB and thank you for sharing with us. You are not alone and I think you have found the right place to share and read. I have achieved what you desire, I am free of the oppression and resentment and pain, but I still have my story.
Hugs, Darlene

100

Didi, Sea and Sky and all interested in discussion about therapists and body work

I know there is a ton of stuff to read on this site but a little about me in a nutshell, different things work for different people. Body work worked for me after I started doing the work of seeing things through this new grid of understanding. My therapist helped me and was very supportive, but, the way I write and the way I coach is not the way that I was helped. I combined my therapy process with teachings based in neuroscience and put the two together. My therapist, the one that helped me so much asked me to work for him and then he took advantage of the gift that I use here today in this blog and in my coaching practice just like the people he taught me to stand up to. It was a bit devastating when I realized it, but I learned so much from all of it and it helped me go forward with the way that I write today about people who see themselves as having more value than other people and the damage it causes.

I encourage everyone to share their experiences. There isn’t just one way to heal. There are great therapists, great coaches, great books, great blogs, and people get great results from a great many things! Different methods work for different people and sometimes in a different order than for others. For me, a great many things worked AFTER I saw the truth about the damage, and where the ‘broken’ began.

Love and hugs! Darlene

101

Hi Darlene,

For as far what I said i meant to paint an overall picture concerning how some stuff works in general from what I gathered, and I agree there are many ways, and that it can work in different order with different people.

Pity this guy took advantage of you!

102

Hi Darlene….it has been a long time since I have written anything here! Feels great to be back! 🙂 Your father reaching out to you , and your comments regarding that, are very interesting to me. My father was also extremely passive…and abusive toward me, and our interactions were always swirling around him and never me. Now that I have been “free” for a few years, I can look back and process through memories and emotions from the past and see some things very clearly. I know I used to stress and try harder for my father’s love and attention…never even thinking anything of it that he NEVER asked me about my life…my dreams, goals, thoughts, favorite color, names of my pets etc etc. I was so used to this that I didnt even think it was strange that he had zero interest in me. Unless he was shouting and hitting. Instead, he would go on and on and on about HIS life and dreams. I could tell a person everything there is to know (slight exaggeration) about my dad’s likes and dislikes etc etc. My father is now 75 yrs old and I hope sincerely that he is happy without me with the life he chose over me. It is a relief to be free of him! Now I live my life equally with the few people I have in it at this time….by choice. I also cut off my inlaws for very similar reasons….the way they chose to treat me or not treat me years ago. Just recently my husband and I were discussing our families and both of us came to the same conclusion that it has been such a waste of time and life because the parents were so self absorbed . Wanting their own way all the time and discounting the people that they expected to just go along with them. Abusing if they didnt get their own ways! Withholding affection and love. Being totally intolerant of any other choices but theirs.
I wish you all the best no matter what your father decides . I do hope that you will be able to reconcile and have an EQUAL relationship…giving and taking and sharing with one another. That is the best part of this life on earth. But no matter what..I am so glad you are taking care of yourself at this time…and thank you again for all you gave to me through this blog and your generous heart and your time so that I could be free of the crippling and painful past. The life I have now is so much more than I ever dreamed…even without family and some friends. One last thing…the ppl who cant handle that you give and expect equality now in your relationships will hopefully one day understand? I would rather be without anyone in my world than to go back to what I was living for too long. It has been interesting to see reactions when I no longer behave the way I used to. One woman I have to be around consistently cant compete with me…I refuse to compete with anyone…those are “games” people play…and she cant get me to bend to her ways of wanting me to fawn all over her and give her all the attention either. What she does now is try to find a way to undercut me or to give her approval of my choices. I hold my own now! Yay! Anyhoo…sorry for being so long winded! XXXXX

103

There are so many things these days that I find myself grieving. Mostly the years and toll taken on my life for how long it has taken me to figure out that all along it has not been ME, but THEM, who are crazy. One of the things I have learned more recently is that I am not to blame for the abuses my family members inflicted upon me until I at last, in the past year or so, had no choice but to go No Contact with all of them; father, sister, niece.

The world is full of narcissism; just take a look at our election as we scratch our heads wondering how this mess came to be. Well, is it possible that so many of us have been victims of narcissism, which is, in short, Satan loosed from his chains? Not for me to say, but something worthy of consideration.

I am in my 6th decade but still don’t know how “old” I really am. Doesn’t matter. Each day I do my best to get past the hideous abuses of my father, who is unfortunately still with us. My mother was a narcissist, but didn’t compare with the kind of narcissist the old man is. She was a brought up as a Catholic, and at the mercy of immigrant parents who knew no better than to expose her to brutal dogma. The old man, (father) on the other hand, is hyper-sexual and with that kind of a loose screw there is no self restraint. Not with money, women, sexuality, or any of the other basic virtues that qualify us as human so long as we walk the face of this earth.

All of us can go on and on and on and on about the father who has been so insidiously damaging, right up until now, that it has seemed impossible to put out the fire of absolute hatred.

I have learned that in order to take care of myself, and not to “feed that which devours me” (thanks to Linda Martinez Lewi @ thenarcissitinyourlife.com) and to discipline myself, agonizing thought that is, to focus on how to reach the pie-in-the-sky that I have dreamt of for so long, but didn’t believe possible. Why? Because I was brought up to believe that money was more important than I was.

The closer I draw to God and Christianity the more I heal, and the more I realize what a poor job my parents did of bringing me up, though they did the best they could. Oddly, that no doubt holds true today for so many parents. To that end, perhaps I have had more compassion than warranted at times for kids today who I see struggling so with their identity.

We are worth it. I AM worth it. The more I say it, the more I believe it. Day by day, little by little, the after-burn of the abuse we have sustained, and been seemingly at the mercy of, begins to fade. Don’t ever let anyone convince you that there is something the matter with reading the bible. This, I am finding, is the biggest threat to the future of civilization. I have been in therapy for three decades; in the past year I have learned that there is no greater therapy anywhere than to study the four Gospels, in a way that makes sense to me. Each day I am guided to a new and greater discovery of how Life can be lived if we but open our minds and hearts to accept the divinity within ourselves that no deranged father could kill no matter how hard he tried.

The other consolation is that I find in the bible, each time I get “caught” on one of the thorns thinking and ruminating over again about the hideous deeds of the old man, that rest assured, his just desserts are in the offing. I put this out there for everyone reading these words who can relate to the following statement: Nobody knows how I have suffered. Nobody needs to.

Blessings to all who find our way here to Darlene’s gracious website.

Love and Light,
Sally

104

Darlene, I’m sorry that the therapist, the one that helped you so much, also took advantage of your gifts. I’m glad you recognized that and went on to develop and give your gifts to others in a way that values YOU.

105

Darlene post #69 I wanted to be sure to acknowledge this possible change with your father. How are you doing? I hope he will read your blog, take in your words, and ask for assistance from a relationship professional in how to have a relationship with you if that’s what he wants.

How I wish my mother took me up on going to a therapist on her own!…but she didn’t. We call a plumber if the pipes freeze, we bring our car to the mechanic when it breaks down, but some people (not necessarily your father, I don’t know) have resistance when it comes to getting help for a relationship breakdown.

106

P.S. Sorry for the third post! And of course, ask YOU what kind of relationship you want and work it out together.

107

Hi Light,
Thanks for your interest and support. 🙂

p.s. about therapists ~ my mother offered to go to a therapist with me to work things out but she quickly dumped that idea when I responded enthusiastically! I think that she realized that she wasn’t going to get away with playing the victim anymore and she backed out quickly. (My husbands parents did the same thing!)

Hugs, Darlene

108

Hi FinallyFree!

Nice to hear from you! There is no news in the father department yet. Time will tell the tale.

And YAY for holding your own now! I totally relate to that. I would rather be alone than play games with people. ugg.
hugs, Darlene

109

Thank you Darlene, this is an eye opening post. It makes so much sense, that when we go along with “Letting go” we are having to agree with them that nothing happened, that totally invalidates what happened to us, and stifles our anger. Depression is the end result. I have been there, I an not going to stay there anymore. Thanks to you I have started seeing the truths!!!

110

Wow so true and deep. I’ll have to take your advice and let go of false hope in people that have proven themselves to be unworthy as well as untrustworthy.

111

I am slowly letting go of the need to explain myself to others, especially relatives and my brother.
My mother has major Narcissistic tendencies and has made my life hell. I thank God every day for my husband of 30 years, who married me, despite what I went thru and what I put him thru all these years. He believed in me and realized each passing year, that my mother cared only for herself and we were all her puppets. My Dad and myself were the ones that got the worst of her. My brother was able to yell and curse and tell her off. He was a lot like her and still is. Anyway, in the past 5 years, she has gotten worse and has blindside me more times than I can count.
I am done. Unfortunately I have a really hard time with confrontation and that has not helped the situation because I freeze. I ended up writing letters to express myself and now with the internet I email. My therapist told me that it’s okay. It’s my way of being able to say exactly what I’m feeling. I have gone no contact once before and went back because me Dad has Dementia. It lasted less than a year. My brother has emailed me 3 times to meet with him to discuss my parents health and my lack of help. I wrote back and told him I couldn’t and tried to explain. It was no use. He emailed back and threw me under a bus. He was very nasty. I tried to put myself in his shoes but he knows exactly what she is like so I expected him to understand, Hendidnt and so I emailed back and tried to explain what she has put me thru. I don’t think he will,ever understand, I can’t go back there. I’ve said it before. If I go back, I will lose everything in my life that means the world to me. My husband and my kids. So…..I have to let go of trying to explain myself to others who are curious,or critical, or judging. I know the truth and so does my husband so does God.
That is what I am letting go of….thanks again Darlene…you are a lifesaver.

112

Thank you Darlene for your warm welcome.
Also Didi, thank for your response.
My heart goes on for the suffering you talk here about. I know it well.

Some thoughts on the “let it go, get over it”. I was so angry several days ago, angry at God. I decided to get some support in reading about religion. I picked up a scientific -public book christian theology, about “the evil”. I read just the preface, I could not do more ( I am often so overwhlemed by my emotions and sick body that I cannot do much, I can do only very slow).
I found interesting the explanation that in the old testament, the person responsible for the “evil” was the human only (the bad one – similar as the therapists say “get over it, you cannot change it”). In the modern days, the catholic christian theology focuses on the tendendy to say “the bad situation is because of some bad God, some force external from you, you cannot change it“.
The authors of this book claim that it is a challenge when innoncent people do suffer (often as result of abuse of others) and no miracle healing is happening. They claim the hypothese that the old testament wants the reader to challenge the God that makes bad things happen to innocent people, to challenge the old (divine) order. To turn the guilt to te God (or parent ?), to blame the God, to make God responsible.
Eventually, one day to be able to search for the truly loving God, the healer.
I searched also in astrology. I am not an expert, but I noticed that often, the planet Saturn (the bad guy) is the image for the evil, the feminine energy, but also the God. However, if one challenges it, after the bad time has gone, one could eventually see the “other image”, the opposite one, perhaps the one of good Sun, good father, good mother…whatever it is.
I feel supported in the idea of challenging the old divine order. It represents to me the order that parents can do what they want. I had bad luck being born in such a family. I shall better get over it, forget, don´t make a big deal out of it, it is not that bad afterall, it is your mind who is making it up, who is sick (I was „born like that“, „genetics“). Genetics is like God-plan. Thus, I feel better that I could eventually challenge this „plan“.

I wanted to share it. I found it supportive to “blame even the God and don´t trust the idea of God that lets suffer innocent people”, challenge this God-image, be the one who has this courage (unfornatunately, I might have no other way if I want the healing).
Perhaps there is some other image of God underneath.I feel that having the permission to challenge the old order is great. Someone must do it, finally. As Darlen shares with us !

113

About the body work,

Didi, Sky and Sea and others.
I´d love to know how it is.
I am myself sick with my body (since several years, a severe infection, from my mother, then two years after another severe infection from her -she is fine today). It was time when I wanted to separated myself, go far away (as usual), but this time make sure to have a job and don´t come back. I did not tell her anything, but she must have felt it, fall sick, I got infected.
Before, I had this infection in mild version some 10 years prior, I infected myself in the hospital, but I was almost fine (yes, more ill, little tired, but I have done since my childhood sports, gymnastics, read books about healthy diet -ayurveda). Maybe I let go of it more past years…but not that much.
I am still thinking about whether I have a psychosomatic disease (it would be a good news, I could heal it) or just a body-disease.
I am sure I have a trauma (chronic abuse, but also some punctual from infancy, from a time of a disease and neglect in disease).
I guess it influences itself.
I became infected, but my mind is pressuring the body so much that I cannot heal it.

Didi, I am very much the “victime” of the body-mind communication. The body sickness is the trigger for my PTSD attacks (at least I think so, I have found nobody to break it down for me), and the flashes from childhood abuse can set on my body having physical symptoms.
It is a roller coaster.
My latest self-help is to give love to my body, talk to it (I use a toy, learned in the innerbonding.com). If I manage to do it, I can be much better the next day.
I am still afraid that my disease is physical, or that if I don´t figure out fast enough what it is, don´t resolve my trauma, my body will have some irreversible changes from the chronic infection.
I did some shamanic healing past months. I guess it helped me to move my emotions, I was angry and felt it (rare). I also got pneumonia (but infected myself again at the doctor´s office in winter, so not sure if the heavy emotions have something to do with it).
The psychic (Erin-Ashley Kerti, truly very talented) told me that I am healing through my body the trauma, the abuse and yes, my body is sick, and this is because my body is very sensitive from the abuse, but perhaps also because I was born this way. Some people have a very sensitive body.

I have no clear picture on it, I am still wondering what has happened with me, with my body, why (lots of shame as well on me),
but to know that it was not my fault and I cannot get over it what caretakers did to me, I cannot let it go anymore, I must go inside if I want to save myself, is very helpful.
I am watching now videos on youtube about somatic experiencing. That does not sound bad, but in the moment, I feel not ready to try it out, but perhaps in several months.
I try to be aware and avoid nasty doctors or therapeuts, already a good start 🙂

If anybody would have any suggest on a body work, some help, I´ll be greateful.

Love,
Kristina

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Darlene,
I am also sorry that the therapist (although a helpful one) took advantage of your work.
Perhaps some people feel where they can take.
At least, he helped you.
Still, it is not a trade.
My main abuser in my adult-age (besides the family, but it started in childhood) was my ex and my supervisor at the university! I wanted so badly to teach other students, be close the intelectual world (so different from my family, from what I had been told from my family) and I did not notice that this guy was picking on me, putting me down.
I ended up with no PhD degree,sick, questioning whether I was so stupid, how dare did I finish school with 18, went to college (maybe my family was right ?
I sense that I was his best student, at the beginning he pictured himself so well, then I figured out he used my name to get some money for projects he never told me about that they exist, he did not teach me, did not give me opportunities to have some experience -I was super unconscious how to move through the adult-life at the university and did not know that it was his duty to do so.
Someone told me that he was afraid I´d do something better than him. It was a joke for me, because I did not study the major he did, I was a self-made, I had different major, I did not have the knowledge needed to have that insight etc…so why should someone with functions be afraid of me, in comparison to him ?
I am only so happy, I never told him what I want to write about…I will not find him writing about my ideas…but it is a sad lesson (I am glad I got rid of him).
I must pay attention to it.

I have a similar feeling with the therapist I was going to (forced little, he is the only one among few in my town who do the deeper work), when he asked me, and pressured me to tell him “what did you do to be angry, what method… ” ?…./I told him I was finally angry and felt better). Unfortunately, I was angry only for a few days, and came back to my problems. This therapist did not help me much, unfortunately, perhaps the opposite, not sure yet, but I felt in my body “he wants to know your secret”…it was so strange.
Since that time, I trust this person even less.

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Hey Kristina,

I’m sorry about your situation!
Your situation sounds kind of simular to mine. I guess chances are realistic your situation is more or less what your psychic told you.

I find this kind of stuff superinteresting, that’s probably the upside of having to experience certain stuff haha. But the general impression I get is that a sensitive body goes almost hand in hand with sensetivity in general. It’s this sensetivity that determines how deep and intense impressions can be experienced, and that is something a person is born with. (I also notice a real difference can occure in this respect between different people who endured the same youth or events) And the more this ability to experience is present, the more the body tends to be affected/sensitive. The number of bad events on itself does not determine the ability to feel and experience, but it triggers it (although this ability to feel will continue to evolve simultaneously of course). So I think you are born with it, and you are senstive, which can be a dread when having to go through painful stuff, but it is that same tool to become aware faster and to experience and connect deeper which I find the satisying side of it.

It’s a bit difficult to say to what extend neglect (of childhood disease) created sensitive spots in your system, it is also possible these things might stay a weak spot but that doesn’t have to be problematic once you’ve healed. At the same time that particular disease might have already been related to your state of wellbeing in general (because why could it kick in to start with, or why did it kick in the way it did). So who knows to what degree these things might dissolve once you will start to heal.

I know from my experience that infections and a low defense mechanism indeed seem related to my state of being. Things like sadness and everything, but also the way the world could penetrate, my abililty to live an autonomous life, make myself happy, you name it, I see these things as possiblities that can help cause my defense mechanism to be like cheese with holes. So I can try to help with good nutrition, techniques etc, but the real improvement comes when the underlying problem is gone.

I have not discovered precisely how it ‘s all related though, but I would love to know and I’m diving in that material more and more. My body work therapist has got this talent, he can feel the stuff I am feeling, and tell me what’s the problem, he can determine really precisely. Which is really helpful in various respects. What country do you live in, because mine lives in the netherlands.

With myself, my body has had so much to endure that I sometimes couldn’t figure out anymore who was first and what is what. I guess with me as well the PTSD triggered phyiscal signs, and that the physical manifestions from PTSD triggered the PTSD again. It’s an ongoing thing untill the PTSD is gone is guess, it’s already dissolving here and there. I used to try and fight it or try to take control, which I can’t haha. So I try to respect it, and work along with what my system seems to want.

Probably the body work I’m doing now is a form of somatic therapy already, but I’m curious what they are saying, so I’m going to check it out. And also the thing about innerbonding. Thanks for the tips. Probably you will like stuff from Teal Swan btw. She’s all over youtube, and she has a blog. She has got some really straight insight on various subjects, I learned a lot from her. You will probably like things like ‘how to heal the emotional body’ etc.

And btw, I’ve struggled a long time with being alone, as if people kept being stripped away, and meanwhile I barely had any feedback or connection that felt like home. I hope you endure and stay true to yourself, the right people that fit will come!

Love,
Didi

116

Didi, your post is insightful, but I have to correct you in your recommendation of Teal Swan. She’s not the wisest source for helping anyone. Her information, history, and position are questionable. She’s pushing a lot of mumbo jumbo that, to the desperate mind, may sound good, but her info isn’t based on anything reliable or solid. Her history is not based on facts, but lies and exaggerations. Be cautious of the new age movement. If it sounds good, they seem to play on it. Most of it is based on making the victim fix the perpetrators crap. Or how you attract these things to you, or some mumbo jumbo magical thinking that works like a placebo for those too insecure in their own self knowledge. Swan tends to pull out info from different teachers (something anyone can glean by picking up a book, which I have done as a voracious reader, so I hear many schools of though at play in her mesmerizing/hypnotic talks) yet failing to actually connect all the dots. In trying to make her pieces fit when realistically scrutinized, it falls apart instantly. There’s no substitute for the facts, truth, and realistic questions and answers. Facing it all head on and knowing what YOU need, regardless what the world says. Wisdom is knowledge in action. Use discernment more critically. The sad aspect of this world is many people fail to use good rationale, logic and critical thinking skills, or too lazy to pick up a good reading source to education and enlighten themselves more fully. So ignorance (ignoring available info) runs rampant in this world. Likewise, modern psychology has offered some good insights into behavior, but to put it my way, people are simply stunted in emotional maturity and developed thinking. We lean too much on outsiders (those outside of self) to determine our situations and worth, approvals and verifications, validation of our stories. Where’s the solutions and why does it take so darned long to fix anything with the conventional methods? I believe, from observation and experience, the individual has been left crippled from what is rightfully ours thru a system of poor education, nuclear family, over abundance of focus on the emotional, the value of self over others, a monetary system that keeps us distracted from our true human nature and the world around us at, and devoid of our own imaginations and creativity to be willing to morally solve problems.

I apologize for the long post. One last thing, the qualities needed to heal from a situation where a parent has damaged us, can require outside support, but at some point, early on, that outside help should be enlightening you to self empowerment with wisdom, knowlege, facts and the truth. Likewise, one must be brave enough to hear it and question it without a lot of emotional noise.

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Hi Laurie,

I get your point with teal, but really. And I already doubted mentioning her because of that. And I also considered whether to mention those things in advance while mentioning her, because I get the controversy around her. And I also tend not to believe her personal story. It’s too extreme, but ok, this extremeness might even be possible, but I don’t believe a person could recover from such events to the extend she did and look all shiny before the age of 30. Even though a person is psychic, because I know she is. (that becomes apparent to me in the way she pintoints stuff in personal interactions with people). Probably she did endure some abuse though, which also becomes apperant to me in the way she manages herself, but also from the way she talks about some feelings, because a person can’t do that if one doesn’t know that pain.

So i also tend to observe she’s struggling with personal stuff in her appearance, stuff I do not nessecarily like, and in those respects something is up for sure. But I tend to leave those parts a bit and separate it a bit from the theories and insights she comes up with. And I also see, that despite the problems I have with her these theories and things she talks about are brought with passion and also involves good intention. So it’s a bit 2-faced around her. The problem is that a lot of theories and insights she comes up with ring really true for me, (and probably she also gathered things from different sources indeed), the stuff that I can back up with my own common sense. In these respects I gained a lot of insight from her. And some other stuff she talks about I tend to leave in the middle, because I can’t back that up with stuff I gathered myself.
I find her kind of clear around the subjects concerning how to heal the emotional body, finding core beliefs, or what she calls her ‘completion process’, some tools helped me a lot, and some stuff help me look at stuff from a different angle which helped me a lot to gain understanding in some respects.

I like the metaphysical, but I have to add to that that I’m far from new age and fantasies, or giftshop cheap spirituality, or give it a name. It has to be grounded and add up to logic sense, and I do not like fantasies. This might some deluded to some haha, but it’s true.

I ended up involving the metaphysical views to the more common psychology, cause to me common psychology does not complete the picture of what’s up by itself. The 2 complete eachother.

It’s also because of my lifepath I ended up involving these corners. It has to do with who I am and what I experienced. I met a lot of psychics of which some I got acquainted with on a more personal level. From all this a learned that psychics are not all-knowing. They can percieve truths, but when it comes down to advicing on these truths or defning them it still comes down to life-experience and personal depth and perpsective. And I also experienced some of them can still struggle with personal problems as well, but really.

I studied yoga, and the picture the veda’s paint of how the cosmos and conciousnouss is constructed is what I perceive as true and pure. And by the way, I do not like the superiority some yogi’s radiate around yoga as well haha. I like own to earth, and accesbibility to all. I also don’t believe these methods are the solution itself which a lot of yogi’s seem to think, as if we can avoid the pain we have to go through to find real enlightenment. But I did experience real nice stuff surounding energies while meditating which I can do stuff with, and it’s as tangible like matter, not like it’s my imagination or new age. The first time I meditated I experienced full blown kundalini which also continued while opening my eyes, and that’s is so freaking heavy and real. Since then I know you don’t need drugs to get high haha, this is the strongest energy I ever felt, it was literally blurring through my spine. So his energie stuff, refined realities, layers within the human sytem and everything is real.

So yes, when it comes down to people like Teal Swan, and all metaphysical information, I’d say to never leave common sense, and yes, self-empowering stuff is key. Maybe I should have added that in the first place, or not mention Teal at all and I agree on a lot of what you say btw. And sorry for the long post as well haha.

Love, Didi

118

It seems your post went back and forth on your position. Teal is not a psychic. Teal is a clever person, but she cannot live what she talks about. Classic narcissist. I discredit her 100% because her life should reflect experience and living what she teaches (even you agree, but you don’t fully see the flaw in your thinking about her), otherwise she is just gathering information to spew it back to her listeners to appear greater than what she is. I know plenty of people who can recite things they haven’t fully known. They leave things murky, while blurring lines of different concepts; and those without true discernment accept it blindly – because it “sounds” pretty. It does not make the speaker knowledgeable. It makes them good sales people. I prefer to be taught, not sold. How can you ever discern what is fact, truth or reality with someone who’s character is not credible? Saying she’s e a reincarnation of someone/something else, or taking credit for a “completion process” (that isn’t even her process, it’s a copy-cat), doesn’t make her know anything. If you cannot see how you are allowing yourself to make excuses for others, then how can you even think about your own healing process with your mother inside yourself? Maybe you can see this connection, maybe not. I suspect I’ll be hitting buttons with you, but it’s too obvious for me to be quiet. This is no reflection on who you are, Didi. I just say it like I see it with knowledge and perception.

The truth can be ugly, only because one denies it or makes inner excuses that don’t fly in the face of reality. Then you can’t choose well for yourself if you can’t see it as it is. And, you aren’t living in your integrity. Part of your healing would be to live in your integrity and respect your life, what you take in, why you accept it, if you reject it, and overall, KNOW these things for yourself to make wise choices for you.

If you choose to follow her, that’s your business. But understand EXACTLY what you are choosing by gathering all the information for your knowledge. That is what comprises your integrity. Don’t compromise it. And I will not compromise what I know because I have checked her out when my daughter was trying to get me to follow her. I told her the same thing I’m telling you. I won’t stand a ground until I’ve gathered my information. If I have any doubts, I say little and ask a lot first. In this case, I’m taking a clear stand.

Thank you for sharing, Didi. I hope no one is offended by my stance. I mean no ill-will or harm to anyone. But people who stand up to speak what they know are not usually received well. I expect that.
Laurie

119

Laurie, thank you for your candor. Last night I woke up a few times pondering how to say what you have already said.

The “new age” may have initially been well-intending, but it has been exploited and capitalized upon to the extent of bringing not just our country, but the world at large to its knees. The world is now full of charlatans of every kind. Anybody can be “ordained” as long as they can find some Fagan-pagan who will do the job for a few shekels, and that theory applies right down the line from so-called religions to the polyester rainbow flag cult movement that is the equivalent of the swastika. There are guidebooks for dummies, so to speak, like “Course in Miracles” and then there are also some of the fringe “religions” set up by the neocon liberal elite that are about communizing the world—for instance, “Sea of Faith” that Bill Clinton is corporately affiliated with. Nothing more than blasphemy.

When the day comes that we can be authentically grateful for the suffering our brokenness has caused—because it has brought us to a higher level of understanding and a better way of life than our abusers could ever hope to achieve in this lifetime, then and only then will be on the high road to healing. It is intelligence that brings us to this realization and our ability to grow, wonder, and most of all, our ability and discipline to at last FATHOM what Love really, really, really means. It does NOT mean that we freely fornicate like dogs. That is NOT love. Yet this is what the second wave feminist movement has done for us. So Laurie, it is really refreshing to read your words that come from a woman who has obviously earned her self-respect. Thank you, again.

Before GPS, if we didn’t have a map and found ourselves in the middle of a city we didn’t know, we could spend a very long time trying to find our way out. Christianity is about the choices we make along the way. My views on this subject are best expressed here: https://setfreeforfreedomblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/11/22/

I highly recommend anything written by Robert P. George or Patricia Treece.

120

No worries Laurie, I underdstand your viewpoint, and I appreciate your heartfelt message about going for the non-compromise and integrity.

But you do draw a lot of conclusions about me based on personal assumptions and limited knowledge about me. And who says I would get involved with Teal on a personal level, cause of course I saw these traits you are talking about. But no one is crossing my boudaries by talking about interesting stuff on my computer screen, she is not abusing me by doing so.

And Osho for instance.. He said some good things right? Would you dissmiss all of it because of certain traits? Because he did appear to have done some crazy stuff concerning abuse. He also liked flashy cars btw. I’m not making excuses for these things or accepting it. But where did you also conclude I was making excuses concerning Teal? On the other hand, why would I have to condemn Teal on certain traits at the same time, things that are also of another catergory than the abuse Osho seems to have inflicted on women. She does seem to mess up some stuff in her personal life, but really, it’s not harming me and not putting myself in awkward positions regarding her.

I know there are people around who call her a fraud as if she is evil, and her message as well. As far as that is concerned I question the discernment of these people. I see someone with personal struggles but with a good message. And maybe motivations of wanting to be seen or money play a role, but i also see genuine motivations. And maybe there are certain traits on the psychological level in which she still has her lessons. Things that would prevent from giving pure information. But I barely catch her on saying nonsense regarding psychological insights.

And regarding other stuff I already told you how my view is, I leave it in the middle because I don’t care. Also whose incarnation she would be, I am also not interested in that kind of stuff, it’s her thing. As far as I am concerned I find her psychological stuff credible enough and well formulated, so worth listening to despite other claims and things. And I also don’t care if she would be a sheer copycat, If you could point out all the resources she got it from it may be worth considering checking them out instead of someone who is indeed somewhat controversial in some respects. And the fact that I am choosing check her out desptie some things, a lot of others bore me for not having enough clarity on some subjects. And I’m also not some newcomer to this stuff, I don’t accept things blindly, also not her things, and have lots to back things up whether things are valuable to take into consideration. And I think that is healthy discernment. Also to not dissmiss everything she says because of some stuff. We can of course also debate about whether certain views ring true or not or wether they are well grounded, also whether she is worth listening to at all, but I guess it’s just best to leave this to our own judgement. We can also debate whether it’s still boundary crossing to take certain stuff of hers serious despite other traits. To me, I’m not putting myself in unhealthy poisitions by doing so, and I find some stuff she comes up with enriching enough to pay attention to. I also find the whole circus around her fascinating btw haha.

And yes, in those workshop video’s in which she interacts with people it’s evident it’s more than just being smart, she does perceive beyond the normal ratio. But also that is fine If you think otherwise.

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Hi Didi,
I did not accuse you, nor do I know exactly what you are doing with Teal Swan’s info. But what I do know is what you wrote. You say you are taking some things she says and using what fits, regardless of her character or the drama surrounding her. You say on one hand it’s good info while on the other hand saying some of it isn’t all that credible. I see an immediate contradiction, Didi. I am hearing you compromise for your own reasons, and that isn’t sound judgement. Maybe you can spend a moment, after hearing another’s words, from those who mean you no harm, and consider that maybe it’s an intelligent argument simply for your consideration and edification, not a way for you to justify yourself or why you choose what you do. Do whatever you want, please. Just consider that maybe you don’t know everything yet.

Understand that the deception comes from 1) listening to a discredited source 2) then having to weed through the information without really knowing what is truth or what is blurred just because some of it sounds right. It’s a very subtle deception. It’s marketing. A person’s character DOES MATTER. Maybe you can learn the art of debate and its rules to understand what may really be going on surrounding Teal and those who were in close contact. I don’t and won’t. I can tell by listening to her that she starts out sounding quite reasonable, then she falls off the cliff, taking others with her. It’s flawed logic that goes against the natural law of human sanity and love.

Only you can discern for you, but it’s best to know all the tricks and rules of the mind to make those decisions. What I learned when listening to people like her is that you can get misled just enough to be on the wrong track later. You really believe that it’s ok to take what’s useful and toss the rest. This is where the misleading begins. It plays on your mind to lead you to make “okay” what is NOT okay. It’s exactly how abusers want you to play with them. Slow boil of the frog. When you know what is freedom, peace and the clear lines of what is right and wrong, you won’t stand for crap nor fall for whatever suits the undisciplined mind. And you won’t make excuses or defend yourself, especially since it’s not necessary. You merely take your stand because it’s on solid ground.

I’m glad you’re on this website because Darlene has a proven record of honesty with her own healing process. You can’t get any more human than that. She teaches us.

So, until you get to know your sources, especially in this day and age where many are trying to sell something, you can’t know if you’re being sold a bill of goods or actually learning sensible knowledge to add to your enlightenment. Sometimes it’s better not to recommend people to others until you can stand in the light of their character with matching words and actions.

Laurie

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Sally,

Thank you for your insightful words. The new age movement has done a lot of damage with people by changing word meanings, concepts, ignoring the reasons things were practiced at one point in time, making new things up to fit into a mold that isn’t there, etc. It’s been a subtle shift over the years and grew like wild fire. I’m quite familiar with the Course in Miracles. Suffice it to say, I think it’s a total sham, intended to misguide people like the pied piper, as are many methods in today’s world of media, advertising, religions, and socially acceptable ways. Most people don’t take the time to ask the basic questions in any given situation or thought within themselves: who, what, where, why, when and how. I call it being L A Z Y. So the price for that ignorance is you let someone else decide for you and tell you where the bear poops in the woods, even if they are wrong. If you like your freedom, you will find out for yourself, ask questions, assume nothing, and let the evidence speak for itself. Usually the answers are in plain sight and simple.

Laurie

123

Sally,
Thanks for the author recommendations. I am looking into the books and interested in reading some of them.
Laurie

124

Part of learning to think for myself was realizing how I had been brainwashed to never think for myself. I looked into all kind of unhelpful stuff on this journey. I read things that today I feel were rubbish. I wondered about psychics, faith healers, all kinds of things. I studied greek and hebrew word origins for 8 years (while I was brainwashed NOT to think for myself) while searching for the truth about biblical messages. And I found the truth and came out of the fog. I saw how people twisted the message in order to have more control.

I had to learn to investigate things before I could determine if they were rubbish or not. I love the freedom of having permission to explore what I want to explore and deciding what I like and what I don’t. I am a truth seeker and a researcher.

BUT (Laurie) I would not say that when exploring or going along with some new theory that may have been rubbish, that it was because I was too lazy to do my own research and I would not call myself ‘ignorant’ ~ It isn’t exactly that I “let” others decide for me, I didn’t know any better. Crawling out of that brainwashing was a process. When I saw a glimpse of truth, I ran after it. When I was willing to stand up to the oppressors, I got more glimmers of truth and saw them for what they are; (controllers and manipulators out for their own gain and not interested in me as an individual) I think it is okay to be IN the process.

I think this world has been full of bullies, snake oil salesmen and con artists since the beginning of history and this blog is about healing from the damage those people cause.

I have chosen to use my power to empower, which I believe is the proper use of power. And that is the example that I hope I lead by.

Hugs, Darlene

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Hi Laurie,

It’s difficult for me to express myself like I would in dutch, so I feel like coming across a bit lengthly and complicated sometimes. Concerning Teal, I get your point, with her on that personal level. I see the narcissist in her. I see her conflicts with people, I see how she gives her own swing to her personal stories, taking people with her off the cliff, but this is not the kind of information I’m looking for with her. I also don’t like the atmosphere and I’m also not a typical follower. But it’s interesting though, and i do learn stuff from it.

The problem why I did mention her is that on certain subjects she IS actually good in my book so the other aspects..it’s also a pity.

The information surrounding how to heal trauma, how some stuff works, she actually really tells practical and good stuff. The stuff surrounding this add to simple insight into some workings and these things have added up in great ways in my general understanding, but also in my personal situation. In this her personal situation does not interfere with the information i want to use.

And this also goes for the more metaphysical stuff she talks about. Which I also find kind of good. And because of my background I can discern that it is, might sound all knowing, which I’m not, but I’m also not this newcomer anymore. On the subjects i’m interested in with her i haven’t found really that much that can compete with her in that complete package.

So for me, I actually do know what to take in, what to leave with her. And also with the information I do find good it’s not that I take it in as the ultimate truth without any second thought, but i think some stuff she does is pretty good. And maybe she is just reciting these things without being able to live it all, but that is fine with me, because however it may be and however she does it, this information is quite straight and clear, and above all, proven to have been useful to me.

But I see the dangers when it comes down to certain abuse patterns. She might not be the clearest in these respects, because she is still subject to certain stuff herself. She might not put enough emphasis on certain advices or even give unrealistic or even wrong advices because of that. I saw these things happening.

And that’s why It could have been a mistake to mention her excactly here, for which I apologize. And I wouldn’t mind if that part of the comment got deleted (no 115, second last paragraph), I can’t do it myself. It’s because of certain subjects of hers, on which I actually do find her that good, that I did mention her despite these things, which may have been not well thought through.

I do get your concern about me being able discern because of certain blind spots I might suffer from. Thanks for pointing that out, that’s not bad advice, which also cannot be emphasised enough as well, but it’s not like I would compromise on my integrity by taking some things of her into consideration.
I also think that’s a bit of a pre-occupied view on how to deal with people with problems, although i am aware their vision might be blurred concerning some aspects, doesn’t mean they lack clarity in general.

And just because Teal is a narcissist, it doesn’t mean no sincerity is involved at all (which doesn’t mean i promote connecting with narcissists of course). I also don’t perceive this subtle marketing to purposely mislead people into subtle deception concerning her general message. She might mislead people though where her personal pain is involved and in those respects she might market herself as well. And I also don’t mind if she is a bit commercial overall, its her business, but I guess those things go hand in hand as well a bit.

But I guess with the way you seem to percieve her, you might perceive me as slightly ignorant. I just perceive her differently and I perceive your stance in this a bit pre-occupied, and not leaving room for anything good about her. And that’s ok if you percieve and choose to handle her that way. Of course, i also understand that reaction, and if it wasn’t for some valuable stuff i find with her, i would choose another as well.
Cheers, Didi

126

And supersensitive to my own words ey lol. But I have to correct.

Some things actually do compete with the info I gather from her, she just covers a different area, but also with overlapping subjects.

But I find this place very strong, and the recognzing of abusive patterns is the ulitmate healer of all.

127

Darlene, the brainwashing is the abuse that brings us to brokenness. All of us have been brought to your website because of the same light that shines within each of us, and that light is love.

I don’t think it is possible to become brainwashed without our consent. Looking back (as I tend to do too often) I remember as a very little girl, no more than three years old, aware not only that I was being abused, but that something was wrong with what was going on with the abusers; father, mother, sister. Over the years it was because of my fear and insecurity that I allowed myself to become brainwashed, as a child because I had little choice, and later, by liberal dogma that included the rejection of that which I held sacred as well as the acceptance of that which I did not hold sacred; hypocrisy is the price of acceptance. To add to the complexity and pain of my brokenness, I temporarily bought into the flimsy Band-Aid of the humanist agenda.

For me there is something humbling about admitting my own laziness when, at various points along the way, I thought I was finding a short cut that would pluck my feet from the painful net I continued to believe existed. It was when I at last disciplined myself and opened my mind and heart to contemplate the cross I, myself, have been given to carry, that I began to see the futility of following false gods, and the incredible beauty and magnificence of the purpose suffering serves, and how that brings us to overcome the illusions that keep us grounded in our misery. For some, it is Life Eternal that we are striving to fathom, and when we realize how small our perceived difficulties are in comparison with the only real and stable Truth that has survived for over two thousand years that is free for our taking, then the rest comes and goes and the shadows, slowly but surely, begin to fade away.

No, this is not at all easy, bearing this cross, but it is essential for those of us concerned with the future of humanity. It seems to me that what our culture most suffers from is our stubborn refusal to take up the burden of humility which, if we are to honor one another in love, is the only way we can recognize the truth within each other.

In the past few years, speaking of brainwashing, I find Christian persecution to be part of the brainwashing that secular liberalism has instituted, especially within the academy. There is no contest and no comparison between Christianity and Catholicism and the secular dogma that has caused the global compromise of morality and humanity. The cruelty behind this kind of persecution has enabled and promoted the brainwashing that has made fear and insecurity insidious, for if anything the desire to conform to the standards society dictates—which is today an anthropology of its own.

Our parents were guilty of a certain kind of laziness, whatever dogma they allowed their brains to be washed of. I tend to think the abuse they willingly and repeatedly inflicted upon their own children had more to do with their ignorance, and moral laziness, when it came to accepting the responsibility of their role as parents. There were social factors such as the Great Depression that caused them to put false gods such as money before the only God, and today, we find ourselves still guilty of the same mistake our abusers made, though we, at least and at last, are AWARE that there is a way to transcend that which defiles our ability to be the best that we can be in this lifetime, and to set our sites higher. How convoluted our thinking has become having allowed ourselves to become brainwashed into believing that as you’ve said, we can’t think for ourselves. This is the human condition and this is what Christ teaches us to overcome. I have found this to be the only reliable and infallible source of healing, after spending decades wandering in the wasteland of nothingness putting faith in therapists, doctors, healers, sex, drugs, and rock and roll, only to end up in the Beginning, exactly where I knew back then, I should have started. I was not ready. Was I lazy? Or was I simply dead of brokenness? How did I survive? How did you survive? How have any of us survived, for that matter, while we take every breath for granted?

I share the following from Thomas Merton, which I find very beautiful and soothing:

“The root of Christian love is not the will to love, but the faith that one is loved. The faith that one is loved by God. That faith that one is loved by God although unworthy—or, rather, irrespective of one’s worth!…

Humanistic love will not serve. As long as we believe that we hate no one, that we are merciful, that we are kind by our very nature, we deceive ourselves; our hatred is merely smoldering under the gray ashes of complacent optimism. We are apparently at peace with everyone because we think we are worthy. That is to say we have lost the capacity to face the question of unworthiness at all. But when we are delivered by the mercy of God the question no longer has a meaning.

Hatred tries to cure disunion by annihilating those who are not united with us. It seeks peace by the elimination of everybody else but ourselves.

But love, by its acceptance of the pain of reunion, begins to heal all wounds.

If you want to know what is meant by “God’s will” in man’s life, this is one way to get a good idea of it. “God’s will” is certainly found in anything that is required of us in order that we may be united with one another in love.”

Sally

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Hi Everyone!
My website is undergoing maintenance and at some points this next few days it will be unavailable. The entire website is migrating to a new server and I wanted everyone to be aware that if you can’t access the site it isn’t because you did something wrong or that the site is gone, it is just moving. I can’t guarantee that all recent comments will survive the move but as of this morning all has been backed up.
Thanks for your understanding and patience!
Darlene

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Sally
I am really sorry I don’t have time today to reply to your comment (beautifully written by the way) in the ways I would like to, but I had to say that I will never agree that a child has a choice when it comes to being brainwashed. There is NO consent. One of the stick points in my struggle to heal was that I believed that I could have prevented the abuse that happened to me. I never had a choice but I thought that because I knew something wasn’t right, that I did have a choice. Teaching that it isn’t possible to become brainwashed without consent would be going against the biblical definition of love. There is a difference between being lazy and being hoodwinked. I agree that I had to look at that difference but I didn’t heal until I validated that the blame never should have been assigned to me when I was a kid.
As I said, I wish that I had more time to reply.
Hugs, Darlene

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Darlene,

Just to reiterate what I said about being brainwashed as a child, “Over the years it was because of my fear and insecurity that I allowed myself to become brainwashed, as a child because I had little choice, and later, by liberal dogma that included the rejection of that which I held sacred as well as the acceptance of that which I did not hold sacred; hypocrisy is the price of acceptance.” Surely we agree that no child has a choice (though I say “little choice” because back then I remember wondering if there was a way to transcend the abuse) when this kind of cruelty is afflicted upon her, however, later in life I most certainly DID have a choice as to whether or not to accept the kind of brainwashing that the bullying, burgeoning liberalism and even fascist tactics still employ to further the agenda of the new world totalitarian order. Even so, part of healing from my brokenness was my need to feel accepted, which was a palliative for what I later learned love to be. All along we are loved, but for those unable to handle parenthood or authority, that light that shines within us is a horrible threat so must be annihilated, and so the brainwashing.

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P.S.

I am not saying that we were ever to blame for the abuse of others, nor are we today, unless we are complicit in the evils of abuse by accepting the brainwashing. I guess when we pay our taxes we are complicit in the evil agenda of our corrupt leaders. So on it goes.

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Didi,

I just read your post dated March 31 (#47) about your relationship with your mother. I relate so well to what you say as the difficulty I had with my mother was very similar.

You write, “And what is this thing that tells us we need to forgive even when a parent actually changes after all these years? Couldn’t it be that what has occurred is simply of such measures you’d rather not deal with somebody anymore?”

I struggled with that question as long as my mother was alive. It was not easy to love her, and just as difficult to forgive her. It wasn’t until after she died that I was able to authentically forgive her, in a way that felt natural and healthy, rather than forced and artificial.

Forgiveness is a very individual thing and I believe we learn how to forgive on our own terms and in our own time. It is important first of all to forgive ourselves for not being able to understand why we are yet not ready to forgive. Just like a wound that heals, the process takes time.

After my mother died, all her good qualities began to outshine all of her shortcomings and failures. Yes she had been miserably mistreated and abused as a child, and as a result she lived her life in a state of severe codependency, which meant absolute denial and the refusal to seek help for the resulting chaos and misery she was on some level aware of causing. Yet she kept a magnificently beautiful house, was an incredible cook, seamstress, gardener, businesswoman, wife, and mother, to all outward appearances, giving the impression of the ideal family life. We were the envy of a lot of people in our town. Yet this was the same woman who lacked the courage and strength to get away from an abusive, narcissistic, and I will go so far as to say perverted, husband, when he was beating and abusing her little girls, even as babies no older than two years.

There is nothing more pitiful than watching your mother die, believe me. In her last few months of life I was able to see, more clearly than I can possibly say, how gracefully she had in fact handled the challenges she struggled with all of her life, which is probably why she was able to die with such dignity. To each of us their is no other pain like our own. So I thought, as I struggled with what seemed an impossible relationship with my own mother, until I saw how she had suffered, and then appreciated the sterling values and creative gifts that she gave me, amongst so many others. She thrived on beauty, and that was what kept her happy. Otherwise, I think she had tremendous difficulty understanding those who failed to meet her standards, myself amongst them.

The week before she died, she began to see, through my care and compassion during her illness, how much I really loved her. Nobody knows how I wish I had been able to get to know her better, had there been some way to reach her. I wonder, most of all, if she had to do it all over again if she would have left my father for his abuses, which were so violent that I was left no choice but to sever ties with him in the past few years. The abusers never stop abusing, so we can not allow the abuse to infect our bodies with malignancy. What can be more important to your health and well being than to never allow anything to eclipse your relationship with your Higher Power? Do we love this Power with all our heart, soul, and mind, or do we love our troubles so much that we can not for-give? What are our priorities?

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Hi Sally,

Thanks for your reply, that is a bit of a heartbreaking story with ur mom, I’m glad you could feel for her, cause acually it is nice if it’s possible and sad you didn’t get to know her better. And the stuff with your dad..probably it’s my own life experiences that made me aware of not wanting to hurt others..it also got me thinking why one child would choose to shut down, and the other chooses to stay sort of open, still feeling this desire to connect..what factors contribute to that? Some say it’s the amount of trauma experienced, but I’m not convinced about that. It’s as if the children that choose to close tend to end up in the narcissistc side, lack of empathy..but how I would die in loneliness in those confinements. I just don’t get the denial, actually I do get it, but the motivation to keep doing so is kind of an achievement to me. The times I wasn’t satisfied with how I treated another, that always have been factors wanting to change. I don’t have children, but to remain in abuse and denial about that towards your own children..and then sexual abuse..I find indulging in such things really unbelievable. I’m really sorry to hear that happened to you in such severe way.

I’ve experienced traces of that, and god knows what happened to me as a baby, cause I don’t trust it. My dad is a real freakshow, like an emotional 5 year old who is sexually frustrated. So kind of scary and his appearance was a serious trauma by itself for me. He once pulled some distorted joke on me that actually was severe sexual molestation. But he didn’t even need to do that to distort my relationship with him cause I was well aware of his frustrations, of course the sort of state of mind that checks out on daughters. Some things in life I find really rough, and this sexual stuff going on from parents to their own kids is one of them, it’s medieval. So yes, this dad, I don’t want him around, even though he is a real sad victim who also ‘can’t help’ but be emotional unavailable, severe neglect. The kind of person whose wellbeing totally relies on me, without taking any responsiblilty, without any sense of what is actually off.
I think these kind of things where the most shocking realisation for me, the freaking horrorshow I actually was born into without much sense of savety or healthy reference or actual precense, let alone love. Probably these kind of square states of being experience some things as love, but how godforsaken it actually is. Same with my mom, I always knew, but especially these last years I started to discover how shamelessly selfish she is, she is one of a kind.

Actually today I got some sort of update..don’t ask me how it had to come this far, but she lives right above me for some 10 years now.. it’s excellent. And especially the last few years this was a challenge to me, but I don’t want to leave this house. It’s right above my soul mate, and it’s a nice house. So I am determined on not letting my life be determined by my ‘caretakers’ again. But recently, after my final final break up with her i succeed quite well at it. And I actually see it as a deliberate chance to exercise to leave the victimhood that’s bleeding through my ceiling with her. It’s like she might as well be a thousand miles away as far as I am concerned. And that’s a really good sign. To me it says that i am cutting ties within quite well, and that I am making my living without being influenced by what others throw at me. And who’s influence would be any better exercise material in this respect than that of my mom..so if I triompf this, I can handle it all haha.

But of course, she’s not too happy about this. Even though we didn’t speak for more than a year already. Back then she even proudly told me she was glad she got rid of me after my questions concerning mutual respect ended up in disarray. But now my final descision of cutting ties for good with her is made her motherly feelings seem to have appeared. I can’t handle those btw, cause I haven’t had a decent mom, also not in these last few years that have been really heavy on me.
And even though recently I’m more at ease than ever, not suffering from severe anger attacks towards her that I suffered from for years, she seemed to have ended up in this panick state: she wants to move out desperately. And the nasty detail is that in wanting to do so, she wouldn’t hesistate to do it in ways that all the other people in the building risk having to leave their houses, which is hurting my friend badly (exactly the one in my life who does know how to care). This is my mom, again ditching any sense of self-responsiblility in life choices. I don’t think it will ever ever be alright between her and me, despite this little desprate abused girl that she is.

I think with both my parents it’s super chanceless. And the best scenario I see is that I indeed focus on letting myself feel completely how I feel. The best sense of forgiveness and connection there while ever be is that I find closure. And from this closure comes peace. And it’s this peace that knows it will be unproductive and unhealthy to reconnect. It’s sad, wish it was otherwise, but it’s realistic in my case.

That was some therapuetic piece writing this. Today is special, cause whatever was left of my mom inside is excellerating on it’s way out. It sounds kind of rude after your piece to me, it’s not meant like that, but today I honestly felt I wouldn’t even mind she died. On some level it’s sad, on some level I would’nt know what to grieve for with her specifically anymore.

All the best,
Didi

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Hi Sally,

Re-reading your story, sorry if i misinterpreted perverted, cause now I re-read it could refer to the voilent kind of abuse, language issues..

I don’t know when this moment would be that i actually would feel some kind of peace around my parents. Somehow I feel this would feel like a sense of forgiveness, even though it would more look like closure on the outside. So i would go for this connection with me indeed, it feels good, starting to get the hang of it.

I dunno how it would be concerning their deaths. Because I do imagine your story. Rough feeling having to go through I imagine. Don’t know if I would choose to come see them at those moments. For now I’m really fed up with my mom. (so it was not be rude, I sincerely felt this about her today, and writing about it helped, so thanks for writing me in that respect as well) I already was fed up with her, but she is putting it to the test that I sort of want to consider her dead by now, playing around with my good friend now as well. (the construction on how this building is bought is kind of a story, but that makes is so that it is possible for her to ruin it for everyone, including a couple of elderly people) I did offer him to move out myself, problem solved i’d say, but he doesn’t want me to.

With my father, I feel more sympathy, but the way feel around him is not good. Only time will tell what will happen. Can imagine death in 2 ways, maybe feelings of forgiveness arise because all pressure is gone, or that it arisis because someone is gone forever. Probably the last one, but it’s a weird mechanism it happens like that.

All the best,
Didi

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Didi,

It’s not unusual to wish our parents were gone from our lives. I have known many people who have said how relived they were with the loss of a parent, or both parents. There were many times that I wished both my parents dead, believe me.* I found that it was after my mother died that it the whole process of forgiveness became not only easier, but much more natural, and as I said earlier, the good things about her far outweighed all the rest. Even so, believe me when I say I will probably always have flashbacks of things that she did that were to this day so deeply damaging that the hatred I once harbored for her comes back at me like a tsunami.

My father is a very sick person and after my mother died, he literally sold his soul to the devil. The point came that it actually made me sick to have to be around him and, as was always the case, I was terrified to be alone with him. He would show up at my house reeking of cheap cologne. As the saying goes, “desperation is a stinky cologne” and that was him. When you say how repulsive you find things about your mother, that is exactly how I feel about him. Though I still have flashbacks of the depths of my hatred of him, they only last for very short amounts of time, if even two minutes. Forgiving him became a necessity and also made me determined to not only survive, but to grow spiritually. Nobody knows the depths of my disgust and how much happier I have been since I went NC (no contact) and severed ties with him. My mother’s narcissistic abuse was one thing. His kind of abuse was something far more sinister and evil than anything my mother could have ever thought of.

For a while I fought with my conscience about severing ties with him, or at least until I reasoned that no loving God would expect me to associate with someone so debased and harmful, and so alleviated a lot of my anxiety about forgiveness. I was grateful not only to find Darlene’s website, but also a few others that have helped validate and define all of the stuff that overwhelms and clouds our thinking, and that can send us into depths of depression for long periods of time (the links are below). Breaking free from my father has been like having a life-sized tumor removed from my heart, though no matter what, it is not easy for a child not to love a parent on some level. But we can still forgive, with love, without having to sacrifice ourselves as fodder for the abuser(s).

* When someone told the actress Bette Davis (I’m pretty sure) how surprised they were to see her at her father’s funeral, she said, “I just wanted to make sure the son-of-a-b_tch was dead!” LOL!

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On the topic of spiritual teacher, body-help
(“Teal Swan”),

Laurie, Sally, Didi and others,

Thanks Didi also for your compassionate comment and feedback.

I saw some 3-5 videos only with Teal Swan, already some 2 years ago. Just by accident several days ago one on shame. I will watch the one about healing the emotional body, curious about it.
My experience is that I learn some interesting information in my search, but I don´t get personally that clarity, it is just passing through me -especially the second, practical parts of her videos.

Yes, I am in the process and I appreciate this feedback
(as I got misleaded by another spiritual teacher, especially financially, lost my time…).
I have a funny experience with Teal Swan¨s videos. I found that she is a hugely worshipped spiritual teacher in the country of Eastern Europe I was born in (where I experienced corruption and clientelism on my own body -it seems to be the life-style).
I felt some itch in my body when I saw this connection. I thought there were many atheists who practise the predatory life style in this country (not officially), not thinking much about morality (solidarity is not appreciated).
Was I mistaken, do they search spiritual enlightement etc….or is it a small portion of people I had not noticed ?
I am not sure, I am more prone to believe after having read the comments here, that one can search the spiritual teacher and be a cheater….my own grandfather, a sociopath, sits since 25 years in the first bank in the church every Sunday…,
another guy I knew was a narcissist, practising some spiritual technics of Japan, meditating etc…
my ex was perhaps a narcissit/borderline (copying my family experience) and he was such a great amateur psychologist, seeing people through, feeling their emotions, knowing what kind of truly helpful advice to give… (I admired him, I thought he was really talented,helpful while letting myself totaly brainwashed and lied by him). Sad and funny at the same time 🙂

Does anybody have personal experience with this teacher, Teal Swan ?

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It is truly tough to see this through, not being brainwashed.

I was brainwashed, but not with consent (as in my childhood).
I read that often borderline personality disorder people make one uncapable trusting their inner guidance, falling easily for some narcissitic or sociopathic skillful “adviser” in adulthood.
With a trauma, loss of identity feeling can also apparently cause the feeling of being programmed and easily brainwashed.
I love to hear that one had no chance in childhood to escape this.
I make myself guilty, I have even in my dreams this question, I was never answered this question of mine by the therapist (except once he said “one does not escape from gas chamber in concentration camp),
and once he said “in order to save you from the brain damage, you would have to be taken away from your family very early”, however unfortunately, I ´d like to hear some more, “intelectual” proof, more concrete when in an individual psychotherapy.

I feel more supported and relieved when being told ” I could have not helped myself out”.
A dream analyst I had sessions, not a therapeut, was the first one, who told me ” You had no way to call the police, call the doctors, go to some childhood care, ask for adoption etc…as a child “. One does not have the brain capacity, the emotional.
I think today I could have done better. I think about my past.
When someone will brainwash me tomorrow, I might buy into it and blame myself moths, years later (but I hope not, I did already so much work on about it !)

I guess that my adult´s mind forgot about the child´s mind

but I LOVE TO HEAR it was NOT MY FAULT. I could have NOT HELPED MYSELF OUT of the brainwashing. It takes the shame, the guilt out of me I suffer so much under.

I just remembered yesterday, how painful it was when the same therapist repeated ” you don´t have enough courage to change things”, “you are lazy”, “you don´t work enough” with the tone in the voice judging….
Today, I feel that it hits the core shame, this feeling that I had been abused, right now concerning my mother: almost sexually (by mother, penetrated, intrused, brainwashed to a “lesbian emotional relationship with her” and I ALLOWED it. I had FUN in it. I WELCOME it. When I knew it was happening (I did not), I should have done something, about it, prevent it, not faving “fun”, welcoming it.
I must be a moral (even sexual) pervert or utterly stupid for having not preventing it.
This is a huge moral paradox.
I start to see that the therapist supported this.
I hope the way out of the moral paradox that one has not prevented being brainwashed is that one had no choice (no physical, rational, emotional capacity, one needed to survive, choose life better than freedom that time was ok).

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Thanks for the message about the new website, Darlene.
Appreciate it. Good communication modeling.

I often think I did something wrong (when the internet connection does not work, the PC, I cannot find things, I must have done something wrong to make it happen -switched the PC off in wrong way yesterday etc. etc.) or
that things are no longer available for me (what a bad luck for me, I must be cursed).
It feels funny (right now ) that I truly think this way :-).

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WEBSITE will be down tomorrow morning EST time

Hi EVERYONE ~ Tomorrow Tuesday April. 19th, 2016 is the big day of the transfer to the new server. This will happen at 10:00 AM EST and may take several hours. Don’t be alarmed if you can’t access the website at any time tomorrow.

Hugs, Darlene

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Hi Kristina,

I am happy to share, regarding some questions you ask, for me it was a whole lot to find out what was going on, and how to best approach, so if some stuff adds something for u that’s nice.

Little coincidence btw, today I got a letter from my psychologist for my doctor. It says good stuff haha, under which one sentence:

“She can judge herself constantly for the consequences of her trauma’s, something for which she is, of course, not responsible’.

I know it’s for various reasons this is being said, cause with him I discover stuff on new levels. I started to label myself as outcast and stuff, while actually how I really started to feel because of the things that made my perceive myself as outcast for instance, was just plain sadness. And at this stage I want to focus on this, cause despite the theories, still these ways of perceving myself with labels like ‘outcast’ sort of remain, and despite all, leftovers of old realities sort of remain, as if the spheres still need to leave. I see the connection for now with me lies within focussing on things like the actual grief I apparantly felt. And not focus on the labels on how I started to perceive myself as a result of the experiences, labels that involve views on myself that include self-blame.

But also it is said because I constantly tend to frustrate myself for not succeeding in following up tricks, techniques or anything that I could do to make myself feel better or make this living I desire. So I label myself with these things like lazy. For me this is now the focus to respect I have reasons for not doing so. If I just take a moment to get past all the survival that kept me alive and ask myself, how do you actually feel D, things like utter hopelessness, emptyness, consternation (is that the right word) arise. It’s actually astounding how strong my survival mechanism is, he’s is great. So in all fairness, how do I expect myself to follow up on some tricks, practical advises, you name it, when it actually might resemble with the feeling a ‘normal’ person would describe as if he just lost his wife, kids, life or whatever.
So also with some of these video’s of teal. The recommendations she sometimes give on what to do are nice, but for some, like me, it can sometimes also emphasize this feeling of failing. So for me, it sometimes comes down to leaving all the tricks, and to really learn how to be and to look with understanding and respect towards myself. And that’s the most difficult of all I guess at the same time. Again because of these survival mechanisms.

And the clarity regarding my personal situation, it comes in bits and pieces, even though some theories might be explained detailed I might not fathom myself, bit frustrating but I love the theories as well. Sometimes with the help of a therapist, sometimes some subject deepens in response to some info after a while after all, maybe also because someone said some missing piece, and I get the answer is was looking for. Sometimes it comes when i try to get it from the space of feeling. It comes in many ways.

And I probably can guess which Eastern European country that might be btw haha, funny your anaylsis of how the atmosphere is there, I can imagine. Been to Bulgaria once, the images around money are a bit tougher there, very macho.

And I think it’s remarkable how people, including me, seem to forget on how the perspective is of childern, like for instance a newborn baby. How utterly traumatizing it is to take it away from it’s mom, like they do in hospitals. They put m incubators. Nothing wrong with it they think from their viewpoint. But for us the experience the baby has would resemble things like being held a gun to the head. The baby is totally has fear of death. These are the eyes of how we as kids perceive, we don’t know any better, and epxerience things for the first time, and if these things were off, then of course they are deeply engrained, of course we can’t help it.

I think it’s also kind of a paradox. Because we are repsonsible, but who decides what info or insight kicks in in getting out of these old paradigms. It is a matter of trying to love myself for where ever I am at and at the same time i hold everyone responsible haha. I actually do in these cases i am being abused. But that’s some paradox as well.

And what I gather myself from this world, is that there are not a lot of people freed from ego issues, not in therapy land, not in the spiritual land, nowhere. It’s like wading through the mud in search of sense sometimes.

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Hi sally,

I am curious..but you forgot the links!

Hilarious, Bette Davis. That is some statement.

And great description, that it felt like removing a tumor from your heart. Recently, since I freed myself from all ties, it feels like this tumor being removed. Think my situation just need to ripen a bit still though.

But yesterday, with this a-social drama of my mom I sensed my reaction in it was diffirent. Still stuff going on, but not the feeling I had to whipe away the musqito’s, or get the bloodsuckers from my body. How allergic I always been to people who want to hitchhicke on my energy, I choose a set of great parents regarding this and I always felt real serious issues surface once I sensed people wanted to do so. But maybe I solved that problem a bit cause yesterday was a test, and my mom is the ultimate regarding this for me. Maybe the realization has kicked in it’s their game which does not need to affect me. Maybe i solved the problem by solving her 🙂

I don’t know, this thing around forgiveness. I used to do ayahuasca for a while, it’s like LSD, bit naughty I know. And then I saw this analogy that life in it’s deepsest sense is about letting it unfold. Like riding in a train and just let the landscapes pass, take it in as it as and experience it, the good, the bad, and this will be going straight to the core, the godself, totally purged and free, yes it was it was kind of triply haha, i was out of mind. Nicely seen, but of course in reality it is the most difficult thing, to not end up in this doing that tries to force things, or to try to forcefully alter whatever is.

I think regarding my parents in this case, it’s like that. I’m not gonna deliberately try anything towards myself, I guess that’s going to be the fastest remedy. And probably having forgiven will arise from that. I see with myself that the hate arises when I feel still oblidged in entanglements, or still attached to someone through things, even through grief that is still looking in essence for something that was not there, that hate towards someone also arises when expierencing powerlessness in my own life because of events with that person. I don’t know, I guess I just have to see where it will get me. Good luck to you also! And your dad sounds like a severe figure, sorry you had to experience that.

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just to add, in this case i feel it comes down to detachment inside me that i am after, in this case with my parents. And i feel that if people still would like to attach after that, they are free to do so, it just has to fit with who i am. Otherwise all there is is non attached, no entanglement, no desire, no aversion. Bit theoretical, and reality is always a bit messier than that. But i am going for the neutral state towards them and then i will see what remains.

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Didi et al,

Here are the links that I find helpful, in addition to Darlene’s website, when I am feeling, on one hand alone in my healing journey, and on the other hand, a duty to share in the process. We are fortunate to have the Internet to communicate with each other since our culture has done everything possible to not only fracture family life, but to send us back to the dark ages having shamed us of our religious beliefs unless, that is, we subscribe to the rainbow party that makes sexuality a religion.

It is important for us to realize, and to remember, that we are only here for a short while. M. Scott Peck, author of “The Road Less Travelled,” also wrote a somewhat volatile book titled “People Of The Lie.” Both are worth the time to read and can be found at half.com. It not only healing, but necessary, to devote some of our energies to a Power greater than our ‘self,’ which helps us to become increasingly aware of our own shortcomings, especially when we become so depressed that we are barely able to function, whether a form of acedia or depression. As adults, the maturation process is far more important to our health and well being than the need and addiction to lick our wounds that comes as a result of not being able to focus on anything but our pain.

If we are to be grateful for this experience called Life, it is vital for us to take the time to consider the well being of all people, not just ourselves, and to therefor inform ourselves as to what the evils and destruction of those we trusted to lead our world to peace have so hideously exploited, further abusing all of us, especially themselves. When we see the extent of destruction and misery our world leaders have inflicted upon the people who not only pay their wages, but pay for them to destroy civilization, we will then realize how puny our own complaints are. Take for example, the hundreds of thousands of innocents murdered and maimed in the Middle East.

The Internet is full of information if we are curious and concerned enough about the issues that closely and dearly impact our lives, such as environment, family, threat of nuclear annihilation, freedom of speech and worship, quality of education, and even the erosion of civil rights that duplicitously hides behind fascist movements like the incredibly powerful and dangerous LGBTXYZ movement that now, on facebook, cites some 56 genders of human beings. Nothing could be more destructive to our species. It is important to take the time to step outside of ourselves, which is healthy, and to do some volunteer work, and to spend some time online educating ourselves about what is really happening in the world we now inhabit, so as to leave it a better place for future generations. Perhaps if our ancestors had done the same, some of our suffering would have been alleviated.

144

Sally,
I just found your comment in the spam folder. ~ I am going to assume that you had links in it. If you (or anyone else) put too many links in the comment the blog will mark the comment as spam, it goes in the spam folder. Please be aware that I don’t always check the spam folder because sometimes there are hundreds of comments in there so I can’t check them all.
Hugs, Darlene

145

Sally,
Why is the LGBT community dangerous? And “Nothing could be more destructive to our species.” Really???

It might be best to keep such opinions out of EFB where victims looking for healing may be of any sexual orientation/gender, etc.

146

Sally,
Gosh I missed some of your comment. I am not sure what you are getting at with some of your comments but this is a healing community and it has nothing to do with some of the things that you have posted. Please don’t post judgemental comments and or opinions. It really muddies the waters and causes harm. There are people of all genders, all faiths etc. here and all are welcome; we are all equally valuable, all worthy, all lovable.
Darlene

147

Thanks Darlene. 🙂

148

Darlene,

I was responding to what Didi had to say in her recent post about the abuse she sustained as a result of her mother’s “lesbian” assaults on her.

If anyone is sufficiently interested in the global impact of the LGBTXYZ movement, “Conscience And Its Enemies” by Robert P. George is a valuable read.

149

Sally
Sexual assault has nothing to do with sexual orientation. (when it is a mother on daughter or son it is called incest)
We are not here to discuss the global impact of certain organizations. That isn’t the purpose of this website. It is so much better when we stick to our own experience and how abuse etc has impacted you, but when we start telling other people how to think or how to view things, and when we make it clear that we have judgements or that one organization is evil and another is superior, we contribute to the problem we are trying to recover from.
Darlene

150

A father’s “heterosexual” assault on his daughter wouldn’t be the basis of prejudice against all of heterosexuality, would it?

Like Darlene said assault/incest have nothing to do with orientation. Assault and incest are abuses of power, inflicted on another human being.

151

Hi sally,

Thanks for your book recommendations. In general the willingness to do good and to contribute comes naturally from having gone through pain, so in that respect it’s the best thing to do. If there is any greater power to be put outside me, it would want nothing else than for me to face the misunderstandings about me which I rather not call my shortcomings, this stuff is also given to me. The other greater powers are also based on abusive concepts that are disempowering.

And it’s never been good to compare my pain to other people’s misery in order to put my situation in perspective. It serves to minimize and invalidate myself. But things are also not measurable like that, it’s about experiences, not events. And it is an utter form of selfhate telling myself to be grateful if I can’t feel it, and those are the times I also don’t resonably have reason to be grateful. Sorry to have to say this, but it is harming advice.

152

Well said, didi.

That sounds like something my mother would say to justify her treatment of me. “What I do isn’t abuse. Be grateful for your family because there are other families that are worse that ours.”

It’s something I still struggle with because I was constantly reminded about how great our family was compared to others’. However, I’m learning to unquestionably admit that what I went through is abuse, even if it’s “not as bad as what other people went through”.

153

thanx S1988, i think it’s funny, i’m really passionate i notice here haha, long pieces, i really like thinking and talking about these subjects. For me i had to really learn how bad it was, but until then i always minimized it, while feeling awful at the same time. Some 15 years ago i got a friend whose mother survived actual concentration camp situations in Serbia in the 1990’s, lost several people also. And of course she was not feeling ok, but she was really disapproving of my depression, because what right did i have to be depressed. That stuck with me. So that’s why i need to say what i said, it’s harming. And i guess with abuse, who says what you went through was not as bad, it is as bad as it for for you if you ask me.

154

Darlene, Didi,
I was not accusing anyone here of being ignorant. If this place were like that, I surely would not be here. I know plenty of people who have heard people speak or read their books and followed them, near religiously. I found them to be ignorant because they didn’t have the power or intelligence to think or explore more for themselves, or even question the speakers/authors. This did perpetuate more abuse because they clung to thinking patterns that weren’t realistic as well as made them feel they were off the hook on self responsibility, then they would become borderline abusive with their comments and behaviors. I watched people in my life do these things and then try to tell me that I was out of line for correcting them or for disagreeing with them regarding how they were thinking and possibly applying what they were listening to wrongly. I clearly pointed how their thinking was actually helping my family or spouse continue with their abuses towards me. In the end, they too rode the lines of complete carelessness through ignorance and laziness of seeing a bigger picture.

I spent many years fighting back (through conversation and arguements pointing out clearly the dot-to-dot connections) at the ignorance of those who should be supportive and caring towards me, while being there for them when life/others hit them hard and wrongly. And all this because why? They had decided to follow a form of thinking that only served them in whatever moment relieved them of all duty to care. And I saw this in its extremes – to the point of hypocrisy and abusive behaviors on their whims towards me and others (backstabbing, gossip, saying one thing to me and another to the abusers, etc). When people don’t question and think about what they are thinking and doing, it can grow to an ugly monster because they are not looking for the truth. They are looking for a way out from their own self-perpetuated muck. They ultimately disempower themselves by following ideas from others that don’t fit the parameters of what TRUTH is and does.

I apologize for not explaining myself better. I was tired and fighting the flu and helping my sons with the flu and other health issues. I was half brain dead and not as thorough as I should have been. I probably shouldn’t have been writing to begin with.

Laurie

155

Didi,
I really don’t want to discuss Teal (I’m pretty sure that conversation is over anyway). I learned a lot about narcissism over the years. My mother and ex were narcissists. Nothing they did, kind or otherwise, is ever motivated altruistically. Its always motivated by how they can manipulate others to make them see what they want them to see. It’s part of a bigger picture of them being in the glory of themselves through others. When I caught on to all their tricks, and stopped playing, and called them on it, they kept amping up the abuse to the point of trying to ruin my chances for survival with work/money, take away my children, take me to court, slandered my good character, as well as nearly sending me into the hospital (except I couldn’t afford it, and the police were useless, so I stayed home to heal, alone, while they relished in victory over me, broken in every way). Narcissism is a very dangerous thing, and its what makes them bullies. And it always starts with the frog being thrown in the pot on low heat. I’m pretty keen to it and I will stop it from the start when I see it.

Thank you for sharing with me, Didi. I trust you are always on a path to your own healing and seeking out the truth for peace.

Laurie

156

Didi,
You wrote in Post #133: It sounds kind of rude after your piece to me, it’s not meant like that, but today I honestly felt I wouldn’t even mind she died. On some level it’s sad, on some level I would’nt know what to grieve for with her specifically anymore.

I can relate. When my mother did die, I did not mourn her but for one minute at the morgue before they prepped her body. I went there alone to see her body to test how I felt. I touched her forehead. All I saw was a dead corpse showing the signs of aging and brokenness. I did not feel sad, although I wanted to – and I question myself to this day for not grieving a woman whom gave me birth and that I loved so much as a child. I was actually relieved in many ways that she was gone. Yes, I loved my mother and have good memories of her as well, but the trouble she created was a part of the deal with her, especially toward me and my sister. I see the awful affects of her behavior, anger and sabotage in my life to this day. Not the affects of my emotions, but in the direction my life took because of her controlling me/my life when I had no choice in the matter along the way. It led me to the place I am now. A place I tried with all my might to avoid or change the direction through my will and dreams.

I’m free from her noise and interference and influence that she used against me, or used to support an abusive man in my life. Or helping my siblings support him as well. I watched her instigate hate towards me through other family members. And when I had proof of large bruises, she denied that my ex could be capable of it, saying I just bruised easily.

I am tired of it all. My mother’s behaviors taught me a harsh, ugly lesson in life: Never reveal what makes you happy or state what you want with abusive, hateful people. They are like missiles out to seek and destroy anything good you have inside yourself or in life. They are poison. I learned to play neutral with them, revealing nothing good that they can kill or destroy, and eventually remove them from my life. I realized that death appears to be the only way to get them out so I can make my life right my way. I do not seek any healing or apologies from them any longer because there is no such animal, and it’s beyond my capabilities to get a true healing with them (because it requires them to see the damage they caused, and they denied it). Them being severed out of my life is the only answer that I can see, and I’m content with that. I suffer no ill effects of my conscience for not feeling sad about my mother’s death. I merely question it to find the answers. Sometimes, I even feel like I can have a better relationship with her now because she’s not here to interfere with her ignorant human thinking.

Blessings,
Laurie

157

Hi Laurie
Thanks for the clarification! I completely relate to having brain issues this week!
Hugs!
Darlene

PS everyone!! The website has been migrated to a new server. We are still testing but so far everything transferred beautifully and we are already up and running as usual!
(By WE I mean my tech lady who has been working on this for almost a week now and without her there would be no EFB!)
Hugs, Darlene

158

I am new to the site and reading this has gotten me thinking. Can someone please explain what I should do in my situation? I am currently a senior, and I have been dealing with depression all my high school life. My family expects that I must obey my mother, because she is my mother and knows what’s best for me. I never am good enough, and I have to try harder. Even when I try, it’s ” too bad you need to do this also.” I am constintly trying to improve and stop being selfish. Am I in the wrong? Am I just being selfish? My mom constantly showers my sister In attention and praise, am I just being an idiot wanting attention, or jealous?

159

Hi Conner
You are not being an idiot; this stuff hurts and it carries a message about your worth with it. Keep reading; only you can decide what to do in your situation but you are welcome to share as much as you like here.
hugs, Darlene

160

Adding to the previous comment, I have been taught that depression is wrong and that there is something wrong with me, and that ‘I have to choose to be happy’…. Is that right?

161

Thank you for letting me be able to share. It is a relief that I have somewhere where people with similar issues can help me. Thanks

162

Hi Conner,
Google “emerging from broken” with the words “happiness is a choice” and you will see what I have to say about that. 🙂
hugs!
Darlene

163

No problem Laurie, but really not, I like your passion in your point and speak by all means 🙂
Didn’t see Darlene’s comment before posting mine, she used the word ignorant as well. And maybe the only thing I had problems with that in your view I sort of ended up as ignorant haha. but I kow you mean well at the same time. So that’s the thing that triggered me and for me it’s funny to register how this triggers me, you teach me lessons haha.

I get your point, also because of your experiences, and therefore reaction in this instance to Teal with those Narcissitic traits.

But the thing with me is that I’m not such a follower of anyone, also not order avoid anything, I’m against avoiding wmhoahaha, I’m also beyond the point I even would manage to avoid, I’m forced to go sort of all the way without reserve. If i try to keep my eyes closed it will be made sure with precision I will still not be able to avoid till I’m through some wormhole, inside-out. So yes, the ego’s, I see them, and keep seeing them better and better.

I like you, it’s ok.

Also no new age fantasies and weirdo’s for me.

164

Btw. I’m not into religious stuff (which might sound like an odd statement), actually not al all, not for the sake of religion. What I am interested in though is how life and awareness are constructed (which embodies pure psychology), which is science to me, and I treat it like methamatics. No loosely based stuff for me and verified with my own experience and/or logic. I love it, can talk about it for hours, so I got some life-purpose-thing here probably.

And maybe it seems to involve relgion, but to me it refers to deeper states of consciousness that are underying to the state which we are commonly in, and the purest form is commonly referred to as god. But it’s no magic or mystery, and no cheesy gods for me.

And the thing with moms, I find it brave you went to her at the morgue, could be confusing. I don’t know if I would do that, I also don’t feel there would by anything left I would feel compelled to do so. Not at the moment, but I can also not see how this would miraculously change in some other direction at some point in my life.

The lies that made me love her are the same lies the kept me sick. And she’s ground zero, if I just take the actual deeds towards me, there is nothing left that I would call love, and i’m not letting her cowardice confuse me into thinking it is actually any different. The recent situation with the house was an excellent exclamation mark to all this. So for me there is no reason for sentiment anymore. Also not for the few times my existence seemed welcomed by her. If i take the general situation of my youth, and the treatment i got while going through hell because of that, it’s just done. i think when sentiment would arise, i would feel that in my case i’d be deluded again in how i perceived her as a kid, as if it was love. Difficult stuff, i’ll just have to see, this is how i perceive it now.

All the best to you,
Didi

165

S1988 #152
I too was continually reminded (sometimes daily) growing up how lucky I was to live in a nice house and have food and clothes. I had to be verbally grateful or I was considered ungrateful. All the while living in an abusive, neglectful, downright crazy environment. I never saw until 58 how dysfunctionally abusive my family was to me. I was completely brainwashed and lived that way until this blog in 2011. The support here brought me into the truth of my situation.
Shocking that it took so long. But if you never have any positive feedback, or anyone to point out the truth, other than your faults, you just chug along trying to measure up. I never had any positive feedback from grandparents, siblings, parents, nothing to contradict what I truely believed. Now I know better and have made so many positive changes in my life and relationships…Hugs Karen

166

Saw the last one, pretty heavy patterns with, I guess, the classical narcists, heavy story.

I had my patterns though, of course with the kind of love that was ‘impossible’ (see relationship with mom and dad), and that is also nice. I got to ‘observe’ some things from a distance but learned so much from it. The only advantage of this pattern is that I never got into an actual relationship with some people. Amongst whom had been real narcissists as well. I am not a virgin btw haha.

And in work siuations I’ve got nasty stories concerning multiple people that boarder sheer psychopathy sometimes. My good friend is kind of a successful guy in the music industry. And he is an attractive source for parasites whom he has to keep at bay. Something which unfortanutaley did not quite succesfully happen in the past. Real dramatic stories, in which I also got involved, I worked for him and was in the middle of it all. It nearly ended his life at least 2 times because of serious health issues that were unquestionably related. We were like Thelma and Louise at times.

So I am aware of the stuff you mention, the not being able to be ultruistic. But the stuff from you-know-who is not always coloured because of her narcissistic mindset. And I pick out the moments it may be going on, I trust on that after everything. It also keeps me *sharp* watching her haha.

And thank you for sharing with me, and no problem for being braindamaged sometimes, we all have that from time to time. Hope all is good now concerning the flu.

167

o & btw laurie, this last sentence of mine just lingered in my mind suddenly, i did’t mean by it that i think you were brain damaged.

168

Hi Everyone!
All the website updates are complete! If you encounter any issues/problems please let me know!
It all went rather smoothly so I am pretty happy about that!
Darlene

169

Since Darlene is experiencing her father trying to reconnect with her; I though I would share my story of the same kind. Many of you have read about how my father lived with us for 5 years. My problems with him and my problems with my sister. I never got along with my sister, but it hurt me badly to know that my father did not care for me ever.

As many here have experienced, I was always the person who made contact the vast majority of the time. Some years before my father got ill I did a little experiment. I called my dad. From the last time I had contact with him I just waited for HIM to call. It took him 4 months before he made contact. I was not having an overt or covert fight with my family at that time. Of course my sister and I hardly ever talked. I got all my info about her from our father.

Flash forward several years. After my father did his stint in our home, he moves back to the Chicagoland area into an assisted living facility. I won’t go into great detail, but at this time I realize he doesn’t care for me and it truly appears to me that he does not like me at all. I continue with “normal” contact for about 5 months. Then my husband says, ” see if he calls you.” So, long story short: he calls me a little. Then all this crap is preying on my mind so I don’t answer his calls anymore. It takes him 3 months to call my husband to see what is going on. Flash forward several months. I get a wedding anniversary card from him saying that he is sad that we don’t communicate. I write him a letter saying that I am sad too. I tell him we can start communication again, but he has to initiate all of the contact. If he leaves a message, I will call him back. So he calls me. This is in July. He calls me a couple times during the summer, and calls for my birthday. Okay, things are going alright. He does not call during the holidays, but he calls me around the second week of January. This is approximately six months after he wrote me how sad he was about us not talking. So, I get that call in January. He does not call me again until 8 months later in September. I have not made any phone or letter contact with him for that 8 months. He leaves a message on my phone to see how I am doing. Then he calls a couple more times in short succession. I had been feeling bad again that I had to make crazy decisions about sending birthday and father’s day cards. But finally I came to terms with it again. I will have nothing to do with him. It is final now.

170

I’m not sure if I’d receive any attempts of true reconciliation from my family. I already gave them a chance once only to realize they basically scolded me for leaving them while expecting me to be with them. I’m not as quick to give abusive people second chances like I used to be, but I came up with a theory that may explain why they act the way they do.

I know it’s not good to be caught up in “analysis paralysis” when it comes to abusers, but I can’t help but wonder why they act the way they do. It has always been an aspect of mine. Since childhood, I was never satisfied with vague answers to mysteries, and did my best to arrive to the clearest answer possible. Now, if my family were like my K-12 bullies, honest and sincere with their cruelty, then it be hurtful, but at least clear, and I wouldn’t try to analyze it as much. But, their actions are so mind-boggling I can’t help but wonder why they see me as beneath them one moment, then act as if I’m so special the next.

The theory I came up with is that they follow a “family loyalty code”, meaning that in their eyes, no matter how despicable a person is, if they’re family, they should keep some contact with them. My siblings are like this with our father. He was cruel to them as children and still bothers them as adults. They despise him, but continue to associate with him. My mother had divorced him years ago and doesn’t like him, but has some contact with him. I suppose since he’s her ex, she feels that he should be in her life somehow.

I know they think I’m a whiny ingrate for leaving them and condemning their actions, but they never said they hated me, and even sent me birthday emails a few months ago. I rather they didn’t since it seemed so phony. I actually wish they say they hate me rather than pretend to like me, and I think they’re afraid to do that because of this “code” they abide by. They always emphasized the importance of family, but I can’t deal with a mother who blames me for being abused by her, a father who wants to use me as a tool for revenge against his ex, a brother who insults me for condemning his treatment of his sons, and not apologize for it, and a sister who makes excuses for her mother and brother.

All in all, I doubt they’d change for the better or admit to despising me. If they do happen to abide by a strange code, that doesn’t excuse them since this probable code didn’t do me any good. I guess some mysteries will never be solved, and this is probably one of them.

171

Hi Andria
I might write more about this whole thing with my Dad reaching out again. It isn’t so much the details of that, but the feelings/emotions that it triggers. I have not heard from him again so pretty much the same story as yours. Of course my mind wonders if something happened, and my brother told me that Dad is not always connecting all the dots as he ages. My willingness to look for an excuse for him still lives in me, but at least I am aware of it and don’t let it define me anymore.
Thanks so much for sharing,
Hugs, Darlene

172

Yes Darlene, it is the emotions that it triggers. Like you, I was thinking last year that maybe something happened like he died and my sister did not bother to call. I even went on line last spring to see if I could find out if he died. I guess I was looking for some excuse too. But the more I hear stories told by adult children about their elderly parents behavior and remarks I often think and sometimes say, “these elderly folks know what they are doing and saying.” We give them a “pass’ because they are old. I no longer believe in giving anyone a pass. Most of the time people say things because they mean it. I am happy that you don’t let your family’s behavior define you anymore.

173

Hi Everyone
I have just published a New Post on the blog for Mothers Day 2016. It is called “Mothers Day is Hard when the Mother shows no Love” click the title or visit the home page.
This has some motive exposure in it!
Hugs, Darlene

174

When family members are narcissists, the treat you horribly one day, and like a princess the next because they NEED your “supply” of emotion. They NEED to see your confusion, your pain, your frustration at their comments and actions.
No code. Just a desire to destroy what they don’t have: compassion, love, truth, empathy. This is why narcissists and other with Personality Disorders treat us with such inconsistency. They use us for their gain. Making a compassionate person feel like *they* are the actual problem is the easiest way for them to “keep us on our toes”, and make sure we stay in their lives, for their supply.

175

Hi Lisa
Welcome to EFB ~ This is true for all people that believe they, their needs, etc are more important than some (but not all) others. Saying NO to this treatment frees us from the prison of oppression and from the false definitions of our value that they have communicated to us.
Thanks for sharing!!
hugs, Darlene

176

Hi Darlene and Lisa,

Darlene, maybe your Dad isn’t responding to you as he is reading the huge amount of information you have on your blog and taking it all in and maybe realized how hurtful he really was to you. If not, he is detracting from you coz he is scared of the TRUTH.

Lisa, you are so right and you said a lot of things I had forgotten about how abusive people are so inconsistent. My father didn’t call me for 6 months after a huge fight we had but now remembers me as my mother has gone overseas to see her mother (who was supposed to be on her deathbed). He is bored and thinks I am going to fill the void.
I am sick of giving my “supply” of emotion to anyone, I just can’t be bothered to waste my time and energy on people that are not worth it. My time is precious and I don’t intend on giving it away anymore xx

177

Hi Hope
My Dad has emailed a few times recently but he has not mentioned my blog. It seems that he has gone directly back to what works for him which is to just pretend that nothing ever happened and pretend that there was no ‘reason’ for the separation that he said he so desperately wanted to end and would do anything to see that happen. I am not surprised, just a little weary.
Hugs, Darlene

178

Hi Darlene, Sounds like my dad sorta. I hear he is so called super sad about me having gone ‘no contact’. (Even shuts down for like 3 days when somebody disses him about his relationship with me) But i’ve gotten no reaction whatsoever to my letter which i sent a while ago in which i honestly explain how my youth was for me, and how i had to crawl for decade or so at rock bottom later in life because of that. Luckily and i am not confused anymore and won’t fall into this trap full of misplaced sympathy towards this self-pity of his. On the contrary, it’s quite astonishing how he would think i’d buy into what he apparently thinks would be an alluring offer for connection, as if i would like to be his free prostitute. I find it really astonishing how people seem to function with this unpenetrable brick of concrete in their heads and how they would think i would play along their game of denial and emotional manipulation, dumping these loads of heavy victim role emotions at me, while it’s because of their own doing, they are their own victim. And luckily it seems to become more like a general phenomenon for me instead of that it still hits me on a personal level so much, even though it’s never nice to encounter these things, because it reminds me of the disconnection that plays a big role here apparently. This world seems like a dense jungle when it comes to these themes. But i just keep the crap at bay with no effort now because of my excellent training and it’s wonderful haha because i get to connect with the real deal all the more because of this.

And this site rocks, i love this movement that gathers against all this non sense, helping each other out through the fog of all this abusive non sense people and society try to force us into believing. It’s great, love it!

Love,
Didi

179

ooeee, update btw, my mother is really moving out YES!! As soon as her system registered there is really no basis anymore to suck on with me (and she’s the kind that thrives on any kind of attention, if positive is not possible, negative attention will do as fine). The house became too small suddenly (which is weird because i am more peaceful than ever). She moving away some 40km. Even though i handle her presence quite well, barely seem to be affected, i know i will be better off with her being gone. The final date is June 15th.

180

Hi Darlene,

The whole “what I did let’s sweep under the rug” is what’s driving me crazy (just like your dad with your blog). And it’s not just from my family. How come I can say sorry and admit my wrongs straight away and move on, and others just make little things such a BIG deal? It drives me nuts! I know they want all the attention on them all the time…I just can’t be bothered anymore with all this pettiness. And then I get criticized for not spending time on “their” issues, the issues that they have spun in the first place. For me, your blog taught me to not let people get away with their awful treatment toward me.xx

181

Darlene,

Yeah, my dad went “directly back to what works for him” as well. It made me weary as well, but that is okay. I cannot control what other people do or say.

didi,

Congrats on your mother moving out! When my dad realized that we were not going to put up with his using us on his terms he was gone. He made it sound like we were not good to him and did not treat him fairly; yet he stayed for five years. I bet June 15th won’t come fast enough for you!

182

Hello Darlene,
Thankyou for sharing your journey with us.

I am 45, and I am broken. I am sick, exhausted, and, overwhelmed. So disillusioned, angry, disappointed, and tired. Mostly, I feel immense grief, and I feel lost and have no direction, no purpose, no sense of why I am alive.

My whole life has been an emotional struggle. I have always had nightmares or nigh terrors, always felt like I was going to be abandoned, always anxious, scared and have no confidence.
Mother is a Narc, only child, jealous, controlling, self-centred, self-righteous, hypochondriac, attention seeker, drama & gossiper, sulky, world-class emotional blackmailer, & manipulator, but apple pie sweet to outsiders.
Father is critical, belittling, condescending, insulting, but life of the party and everyone’s great mate.
Ex-husband is disrespected, devalued, disregarded, criticised, insulted, isolated, withheld money, lied to me.

I have been divorced for 6 years, after 16 years of marriage. He is still being a vindictive annihilator regarding 12 yo daughter. Has bought the 15 yo daughter’s loyalty with money & pathetic sob stories.

I told my father, my side last November, which was met with swearing, denial, throwbacks etc. I have adored my dad, my whole life, and tried so hard to win his love an approval, but everyone else was always smarter, faster, more successful etc than me. I said hello to him on Christmas Day at my Brother’s house, attended his birthday lunch in February keeping my distance, and have had no contact since.

My Mother went into full throttle in my Father’s absence. I have always been untrusting, cautious and completely obedient, as the rage is not worth bucking her. She stepped over the line regarding my children, so I let her have my side. I copped a tirade of texts about being ungrateful etc, and her telling me that she has been a wonderful mother, blah, blah, blah. I blocked her. No contact since late February.

I adored my Brother, and even though I knew he was my Mother’s favourite, she never played us against each other that I was aware of. Our Mother drove him a bit mad with her attention seeking, but since I have not spoken to her, he has not spoken to me. That was very devastating, but I am handling that grief a bit better now.

It is May now & the ex-husband has initiated a custody increase for Miss 12, but she is of age to speak for herself in our court system. I have now put child support collection in the hands of the government. He is great friends with my parents, and looking back, they pretty much handed me to him on a platter to care for his 2 small children, before having 3 of my own, that he has tried to turn all against me!

My devoted husband of 3 years has been solid as a rock. He had no idea what he was in for…we briefly separated as I was convinced, through my Mother’s manipulation and grinding me down, that he couldn’t possibly love me, he must have other motives…Well I have been disinherited, and he has come home…he is supporting me & my children, and there is no resentment, just love. My parents had bought an investment property after my divorce, (in hindsight this was to control me, and the talk of sacrifices they were making for me was ganache thick..they could afford 5 houses!!?), and so we rent that house. We are vacating when the lease expires, & moving to another town in the new year.

So, now I am just trying to get through each day. Mostly I live in pyjamas, and it’s nearly winter so that isn’t a good sign! I live in the small town that I was raised in, and I can’t wait for the change of scenery. I don’t cry as much as I used to. My anxiety has settled. My depression is heavy some days. I haven’t worked for nearly a year. I feel unmotivated, but not as hopeless as I did. I just feel unconnected and uninterested in anything. Last January, April, June, & September, I wanted to be gone, but I feel some glimmer that things may get better now I have disconnected from them, and stepped out of the warzones.

Thankyou for having me, and allowing me the space to be real without judgement.

183

Hi Dee,

You have gone through a lot and you are still here. That says a lot about you. I am glad your husband is a rock for you. It is a tough journey going without contact with your FOO, but it gets better as time goes by. It would have been better to be born into a “nice” family, but we weren’t so we have to deal with what we were given.

It will be good to move to a different town and not be so close to the war zones as you put it. I am glad that you seem to see some light ahead that you can move into. Best of luck while you try on your new life without your FOO.

184

Amen this is wonderful. I agree 100% and to me what you have explained here is the true meaning of forgiveness. Because true forgiveness does not change the facts. But frees you up to face the facts!

185

Darlene,

thank you SO much for this. I really needed this. Your encouragement and wisdom is like the support I never had.
I have a very long journey to healing and your words are like balm to my soul.

This moves me because for years, I have been invalidated, which only adds to my pain from the different types of abuse I experienced growing up.
I’ve had people tell me to “stop playing victim” and “get over it” and “let it go” all too often.

Even worse are the folks who deny that I’ve ever been hurt or mistreated or experienced bad things.
Some people have even accused me of lying, which is like being stabbed in the heart because it is just ANOTHER way to shut me down and keep me from speaking my truth.

So thank you for providing a safe haven where we can talk about things without being judged…and where we can share support and encouragement with one another!

186

Hi Dee
Sorry for the late reply. I understand the circumstances you are describing. I am so glad that you are here! I felt very much like you up until about 10 or 11 years ago now when I saw a glimmer that things could be different and that perhaps I was not the problem at the root of every relationship difficulty.
So glad you are here and thank you for sharing!
Hugs, Darlene

187

Hi Melinda
Welcome to EFB ~ I am so glad you are here! By what you have written it sounds like you have found the right place to read and share!
hugs, Darlene

188

My mother pretty much said it was my fault for moving out and marrying when I did, but she fails to see that I was driven away from home by the way she and my stepfather treated me when I lived with them. I wasn’t the first girl to marry as a way to escape a toxic home environment and I won’t be the last.

Years of constant verbal/emotional/mental cruelty that never seemed to end.
What you said, Darlene, hit home with me about trying hard to change so that maybe then you would be more loved by the people around you.

That was definitely me too. When I lived with my mother and stepfather, I bent over backwards trying to win their affection and approval.
But nooo….I was “bad”. I was “lazy”. I was “stupid”. I wasn’t pretty enough or smart enough.
I was a problem no matter what. Years of this treatment by nearly everyone around me eroded my self-esteem to the point where I feel utterly destroyed as a person.

I love my mother and I know she loves me, but she made her choice to be with my stepfather and I’ve had to accept that.
No matter how badly he has treated me or what he has done, she will never leave him.
So I have to focus on healing my life and becoming whole again.

189

Melinda,
I hear you. I moved out of the house when I was 17 and in with a guy just to get away from my mother. Men were always more important than I was to her and I believed that was true. I believed that MEN WERE more important than I was and I didn’t even blame here back then. And then of course when my relationship went bad they used it as proof against me. Round and round it went until I finally put myself and my healing first.
Glad you are here.
hugs, Darlene

190

I have been feeling need to set things straight with people who have wronged my family I don’t care about my own feelings. But do my children’s . How can they then tell me to let it go its in the past it kills me some 20 years on some more recently as 10 everything I had for my kids taken by someone who from start of our relationship set out to amass them selves monetary. That would of been my children’s I’d guarded fought their father for every penny for them met someone who was long time friend and got together trusted but it seemed to her it was a.means to an end. End of their inheritance taken planned to do so by them. Thinkin she was helping protect my girls money my son thrown out of his home at 10 by a friend.everyone says forget it I can’t they hurt my kids finances . They are big good enough to forgive but I can’t this was a nurse Psychiatric nurse helping Mr on breakdown for my daughters terrible treatment by her husband hospitalisation but they say forget it. She took my friends with her painting her self a sad picture of her self spent the money on her new partner holidaying buying nice furniture my son left in rental council properties for 13 years longer till today he still home as I could no longer work due to initial breakdown then a pushy was nurse adds to it takes my home money and self respect . The NHS certainly employs them yes then I had no friends to help me recover from her treatment most worked NHS . We need them vetting more strenuously who gets in there . Then I find iam at mid list people she’s ripped off and run off with others money at least 3 before sold drugs to people recovering from substance abuse . Tried to get other nurses sacked for CD drugs missing 1 cuss she wanted the mess 2 cus she didn’t like the nurse 3 cus colour preduicse well done some people helpers . Ones suppose to be supporting the abused and people crying for help. She is in a field where she can see the vulnerable and with NHS pay cheque at end of day well done NHS

191

Hi Everyone!

It has been a crazy summer but I have good news ~ I finally published a new post. 🙂
I hope you will all visit the new article and share your voices with me!
My new post is called “Are you Exhausted from Trying to be Stronger than you Feel?”.
Looking forward to the discussion!!

Hugs, Darlene

192

Thank god I came across this! I had people who told me oh the past is the past blah blah. It should be, but the problem is they kept bringing up my past and throwing it in my face. One thing I felt I let go on is that to everybody out there who felt my parents did “the best they could” or “were the best parents ever” my conclusion is I will be wrong in their eyes, but I know the truth so do my siblings (except brother is in denial about our mom).

I feel if people aren’t going to at least listen and validate my feelings, then it’s not worth my oxygen tank to tell them crap. There are other issues I am still needing to work on as far as is letting go myself not the societal way of letting go. My now ex friends recently told me that I have this victim mentality and I have been told this by a lot of people too including the very first therapist I saw. Although, I came to that conclusion not sure why I still don’t feel free I still feel angry.

I am not sure what to make of that. I read two articles on forgiveness that were absolutely wonderful and hit home for me.

193

to let go of what we were brainswashed to believe feels still hard –

i feel whenever in therapy i was told ot let go and just to give my family and friends a break and stop making a fuss about things and change myself for one shortly put- i was actually being fed on my hopes of thme changing –

but it never did change for real –

only recently realsiing that for real –

and only recently letting go of my expectations of them to change – as it won t happen – and letting go too of all the times i was called the problem when in fact the things i went through had been problematic, not me

and letting go of the result of what i feel i should ve reached by now – at times i still feel the no good at all person i was told i was by a lot of people and i feel i still need to prove i m actually okay as a person and allwoed to exist, an d that the only way by doin that is continuin to force myself

maybe letting go of all these things wil rrelease some things, and bring back more lust for life as well? as at times it s really hard to believe things can change – and keep on trusting –

thx for sharing this

194

Just discovered your website. So much to peruse. So much that speaks to me. What a club we are in! Thank you for helping us validate and know one of the most important aspects of growing up (and hopefully out of the clutches of) with narcissists: we are not alone, crazy, weird etc etc. And in fact, we can even have a sane voice about the insanity of growing up with such parents. Word is finally getting out: it really was THAT bad… And we must fight for the right for it to be acknowledged by those who, most times, have little understanding and allow themselves to continue to wallow in ignorance, even after one has tried to explain…
What I’m finding is that although malignant narcissism etc IS becoming a more familiar topic on websites, how to truly and specifically heal as much as possible, from the minutiae of everyday symptoms/triggers (can’t think of better word ATM) etc is rarely or adequately addressed. It has to be from someone who has truly been there, recovered from that. I strongly believe that people who haven’t experienced it can truly wrap their heads around this disorder. Not that I’ve found, at least. So different to PTSD…
So, I look forward to reading all your posts.

195

Welcome to EFB ~ Maja and Mem!

Thank you both for sharing!
hugs, Darlene

196

Darlene, I want to thank you and all the people who post on your website. This community has been a life and sanity saver for me many times. Just by reading these pages, I feel not so alone on this journey.
Wishing peace and contentment to all!

197

I started to refer to me as a jackass in the process, I thought since I was apparently such a rubbish person I could just as well act the part –

deep down I could still find care too tho no one seemed to see it still

it s been and still is hard to use me as a reference to start from –

me as a reference whether the room is hot or cold, me as a reference whether I can use the bathroom or not rather then listening in for possible signals of abuse from carers or…..

that I am enough –

that my knowledge of me is enough without them acnkowledging it

that my healing process is okay even tho it s not the result therapists wanted to see –
I m still healing –

and I guess that is enough – I cannot make them happy or make anyone feel I m doing enough –

I tried to do so by letting go in ways others instructed me too –

they never worked in full just temporary and then they got angry – when I just wanted to say I need help in a different way and I want you to say my healing is okay

okay so they ll never say this – I can let go of expecting them to acknowledge my worth and the worth of this healing joureny –

I guess saying it myself can be enough just as well

I ve given it all I can as it is – how can thet be not enough in the end

198

I got married in the 11th grade to get away from my mother. My grandma told her not to waste time on me, as I was not worth it. I heard this conversation. I grew up always trying to just survive. Since I could do no right by her, pardon the pun, I became Ellie MaeClampett. I beat up more boys, hunt, learned a lot. Mostly anger, never could match up to my brother. If it weren’t for finding Jesus, I’d been dead long ago. There’s more to the story, but my father, God Bless him, just passed, and my mom turned on me. and my husband at the funeral. Threw us out of the house,before the viewing,and now won’t sleek to us. I left out alot, but we plan on helping her best we can .

199

I’ve been told to let it go, move on, and other such stuff. It seems like the people who tell you to let it go, and the ones who would benefit from you letting it go.

I can’t let it go, my whole life situation is because of these events. I was forced to give up my life/friends. I was told that if I did not move, my parents with my girlfriend would take my kids and go anyway. It was suggested that I had an inheritance and that I will be getting my university paid for if I moved and went back to school. Apparently that was my inheritance. I would need to redo high school.

I moved begrudgingly, I let everyone say how horrible I was for moving to get an inheritance, I listened to people tell me I should give up my kids as I am not rich. But still, I redid high school so I could get into university, I got honors, I got enrolled into university. Suddenly there was no inheritance, I was being told stuff like, Why are you going to school you should be working. I was also told to let it go, and move on, there was no inheritance.

My oldest daughter had some rare skin cancer. The doctors thought it was a cyst and removed it. They biopsied it after and discovered it was cancer. My daughter needed multiple skin grafts, and a 8 hour surgery. During this time my girlfriend left, life was very stressful for both of us, and my parents who told her that she would be taken care of instead blamed her for what happened to my daughter. She left and has never seen her daughters since.

I am now single, with 2 daughters, broke, can’t afford to finish university, can’t pay for most necessaries. I am very angry these days. My health is very poor, and I cannot afford the dental work I need. My doctor basically has me on antibiotics constantly. I have become a recluse. I am still told that I should let it go, and that its doesn’t matter what I was told, or what other did.

Let it go seems like a trick,

I suppose if I had something good in my life it would be easy to let it go.

200

My date friend whom I have been seeing, we talked about letting go. His version is not letting it get the best of you and stop hanging onto the issue(s) like a victim. we had a great discussion about the topic I still have a hard time letting go. not easy right now to let go when other negative factors are still having me to hold onto shit.

201

How come victims of child abuse/neglect aren’t “allowed” to have a victim mentality? What would you expect? THEY ARE VICTIMS. And who exactly gets to decide what this supposedly negative “victim mentality” even means, how it’s suppose to play out in each individual’s life and what or even if there’s an expiration date on recognizing and accepting, “yes, this DID happen?” I am so sick to death of “do-gooders,” self-appointed and anointed “mediators” and other alleged “experts” and being TOLD how I “should” feel, and what my reality “should” be and how to grieve-if I’m even “allowed” to do the grief work for a stolen childhood, adolescence, early adulthood and adulthood. Apparently my experiences must be subsumed to someone else’s definitions and determination of the legitimacy of my Reality; otherwise I have a “victim mentality.”

There are some fundamental Truths that form a “victim mentality:” This mentality is the result, not the CAUSE of a much more insidious and damning indictment of the perpetrators and their pattern of behavior towards their offspring over decades. I’m saying very directly let’s call things by their real name. Let’s call phenomena what they are because *words have meaning.* As loathe as abused Adult Children are to verbalize out loud the “a” word or the “n” word (abuse/neglect) they’re equally as loathe to use those words even to THEMSELVES: They consistently minimize, deny, rationalize or otherwise engage in what ever internal psychological Shuck-n-Jive necessary to protect themselves from this painful and threatening reality. What a recipe for the continuation of internalized self-flagellation and a belief system that is inherently distorted and serves no one-least of all the victims-except those who are indeed accountable, the perpetrators for victimizing their OWN children.

A “victim mentality” kept those victims alive. It kept them constantly aware of their environment for potential threats to their wellbeing-in every way. A “victim mentality” arose from experiences garnered over decades. I’m asserting a “victim mentality” is ultimately Life Preserving, Full Stop. Are people in Domestic Violence Shelters accused of having a “victim mentality?” Ever? Is there ever a demand they explain themselves in a manner acceptable to their *abuser’s satisfaction* to determine whether or not they were abused? Does the abuser determine the number of beatings, of verbal and psychological terrorism, the number of years etc. the victim must endure before they are “allowed” to seek shelter, to be worthy of shelter, to have their Reality confirmed? Does anyone say, “Well, have you thought about what you’re going to do when the abuser dies?” Is it ever the case the abuser admits culpability-unless legally coerced? And these few examples of consideration are given to ADULTS. But to Adult Children? No. They are retraumatized by individuals and organizations in an effort to coerce them to collude with their abusers, whether wittingly or unwittingly. Adults can seek redress through Legal Seperation or Divorce. An Adult Child has absolutely NO redress beyond NC. (Have you ever tried as a minor to become Emancipated? Good luck with that.) Abusive parents assert the very act of NC is an act of HOMICIDE towards them-and yet nobody questions that outrageous assertion.

The most vulnerable, the most voiceless, the most powerless victims of abuse are stripped of their most fundamental right: The right to self-defense, ANY act of self-defense even as ADULTS who quietly NC. A “victim mentality” is the natural consequence of being victimized. And like it or not, there are vestiges of growing up with these kinds of “parents”-who-aren’t that will remain with me until my physical death. That’s a fact, neither good nor bad; simply Reality. I did not terminate the relationship with my biological “mother” lightly, without prior decades of anguish, without profound sadness, without consequences: Decades of a Scorched Earth War ensued despite absolute silence on my part. The EP’s public talk may be allll about “not knowing whhyyy!” and “Reconciliation;” however, the behavior is pure sadistic retribution. I call Bull Shit on the words when the consistent behavior screams otherwise. Apparently the “problem” isn’t a consistent massive failure on the part of the parent to parent but a failure on the part of the Child for failing to “kid” correctly.
And I do not, for a second believe I am in any way unique as an Adult Child.

A “victim mentality” more accurately IMO is a “survivor mentality.” It is life preserving. It is a *part of* but not *all of* every victimized human being. It is not a retreat, an excuse, “holding a grudge,” a murderous retribution nor an accusation: It is a Statement of Fact.

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